Kiwibrown Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: Oh, it looks like you're forgetting (in no order): 1. Patrick Mahomes 2. Drew Brees 3. Russell Wilson 4. Philip Rivers Yes 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 5. Matt Ryan Baker has been better some weeks, consistently since the coming of fat freddie 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 6. Jared Goff 7. Deshaun Watson Yes 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 8. Carson Wentz He hurt. 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 9. Andrew Luck Yes 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 10. Aaron Rodgers No. Rodgers has been pretty meh at times. Baker is moving the ball better and leading his team better 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 11. Ben Roethlisberger Not all the time. Half-2/3rds of the time he is better 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: 12. Kirk Cousins Cousins is more prolific, not always brtter 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: Unless you're going to argue that your belief is based on the eye test rather than stats. In that case, lol at you believing Baker is better than Brady this year. Stats and the eye test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: He has had a couple rough halves and a rough start against the Chargers but otherwise he most certainly has. At least in my opinion of the 13 games I've watched, if you've only seen a few I get why you don't see it. But, like many say he is surrounded with great talent. I can't wait to see all of this talent on display in the Pro-Bowl. Simply put, he most certainly has not. Baker's production isn't on that level, and when you look deeper at the merely above average production he does have, there are even bigger issues with it. Here are Baker's numbers on the year against teams with winning records: 5 games 127/210 60.5% 1454 passing yards 6.9 YPA 7 TDs 8 Ints 76.6 QB Rating He has feasted on bad teams. I've watched Baker play a number of times this year because Nick Chubb is on my fantasy team and I enjoy watching the Browns do well. His play isn't better than his production, like Brady's is, for example. Baker has been an average to above average QB this year. He's simply not on the level of the top 10 guys. For example, here are Jared Goff's numbers against teams with winning records: 8 games 220/326 67.5% 2781 passing yards 8.3 YPA 18 TDs 9 Ints 100.8 QB Rating 18 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Baker is better than Brady this year. And I'm the King of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, jrry32 said: His play isn't better than his production, like Brady's is Says the eye test hypocrite 😎. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, jrry32 said: And I'm the King of England. I didn't know Colin Cowherd (confirmed) was also a lizard person. Neat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Says the eye test hypocrite 😎. There is neither an eye test nor a production argument for Baker being top 10. Browns fans should enjoy what the kid is doing and not rush to overly hype him up. But I understand why you're doing it. It's easier to preach it than to practice it. I've been guilty of it plenty myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: There is neither an eye test nor a production argument for Baker being top 10. Browns fans should enjoy what the kid is doing and not rush to overly hype him up. But I understand why you're doing it. It's easier to preach it than to practice it. I've been guilty of it plenty myself. And humble to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 5 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: Wentz and Cousins are not better than Mayfield this year and given how the wheels have fallen off Goff in the last 5 weeks, I would hesitate on him too. Mahommes, Brady Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Luck, Rodgers and Wilson are the 8 QBs I would say are definitively playing better than he is this year. I think he is playing a equally good as Ben is and I would put him right there in the 9/10 spot next to Watson. Wentz still played better then Baker with a Gimpy Knee and Broke back. Stats below with 2 less games. Whatever you're smoking, Pass it. Put it down! Before you get hurt or hurt someone else. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: And humble to boot! What can I say, I am a stable genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 7 hours ago, jrry32 said: Baker's numbers on the year against teams with winning records: What does facing opponents with winning records prove? You should have went vs. top passing defenses, you would have had mostly the same result with Baker. It would have really hurt the comparison to Goff though. Besides the first Bengal game Baker hasn't had it easy. He is making tough throws, throws I don't even like to see him make. It's working for the most part but it is asking too much for any NFL QB. He is probably plus 90% on his accuracy, we've struggled to see 60% in a Browns QB so maybe it is just a shock to the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/24/2018 at 10:13 AM, Gmen said: Let's not over analyze. Barkley is currently 7th all time in rookie yards from scrimmage. If he gets 50 yards this week, he'll finish 4rth all time. With approximately 100 yards, he'll finish 3rd all time behind only Eric Dickerson and Edgerin James. A quarterback averaging 260 passing yards per game in 2018 is not impressive. Mayfield's numbers are only marginally better than Eli's, and everyone is sticking a fork in him. I know it's exciting when the Browns win more than a couple games in a season, but let's not get carried away. Come on now. For a rookie QB it certainly is. Second all-time behind Andrew Luck. Already 3rd all-time in passing TDs for a rookie while missing a few games. Those are impressive numbers, no matter how you cut it. Good arguments for both IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 13 hours ago, jrry32 said: Nope. Yea that’s a nope, it’s top5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, childofpudding said: On 12/24/2018 at 10:13 AM, Gmen said: Let's not over analyze. Barkley is currently 7th all time in rookie yards from scrimmage. If he gets 50 yards this week, he'll finish 4rth all time. With approximately 100 yards, he'll finish 3rd all time behind only Eric Dickerson and Edgerin James. A quarterback averaging 260 passing yards per game in 2018 is not impressive. Mayfield's numbers are only marginally better than Eli's, and everyone is sticking a fork in him. I know it's exciting when the Browns win more than a couple games in a season, but let's not get carried away. Come on now. For a rookie QB it certainly is. Second all-time behind Andrew Luck. Already 3rd all-time in passing TDs for a rookie while missing a few games. Those are impressive numbers, no matter how you cut it. Good arguments for both IMO. He says 260 isn’t impressive but if baker played all year at that, that’s 4,160 passing yards. Lucks record setting rookie record was 4,374. Also if baker was playing the entire year he would have shattered the rookie passing TD record. Also let’s not forget Baker/Browns have played the 5th hardest SOS this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, buno67 said: He says 260 isn’t impressive but if baker played all year at that, that’s 4,160 passing yards. Lucks record setting rookie record was 4,374. Also if baker was playing the entire year he would have shattered the rookie passing TD record. Also let’s not forget Baker/Browns have played the 5th hardest SOS this season Barkley has been fantastic as well. Not only is he 3rd in YFS behind Elliot and McCaffrey, but he's also 3rd in percentage of team YFS, behind Elliot and David Johnson, with 36% of the team's yards coming from Barkley. He's also 7th in YFS for a rookie with a game still to go - most likely he'll end up 3rd or 4th all-time there. Earlier poster said both should share it, and I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, childofpudding said: Barkley has been fantastic as well. Not only is he 3rd in YFS behind Elliot and McCaffrey, but he's also 3rd in percentage of team YFS, behind Elliot and David Johnson, with 36% of the team's yards coming from Barkley. He's also 7th in YFS for a rookie with a game still to go - most likely he'll end up 3rd or 4th all-time there. Earlier poster said both should share it, and I agree. Yeah but odds are it won't be shared. 50 voters will make their selection and odds are it isn't 25-25. I imagine there will be a vote here or there for other players as well. This is the list of last years voters it will likely look a lot like this years voters: These were the 50 MVP voters for the 2017 season: Eric Adelson, Yahoo: @eric_adelson Troy Aikman, Fox: @TroyAikman Hub Arkush, Westwood One: @Hub_Arkush Howard Balzer, Pro Football Hall of Fame: @HBalzer721 Don Banks, Bleacher Report: @DonBanks Jarrett Bell, USA Today: @JarrettBell Andy Benoit, The MMQB: @Andy_Benoit Ron Borges, Boston Herald: @RonBorges Vic Carucci, Buffalo News: @viccarucci John Clayton, ESPN: @ClaytonESPN Steve Cohen, Sirius XM: @CohenNFL Cris Collinsworth, NBC: @Collinsworthpff Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune: @markcraignfl Tom Curran, Comcast Sports Net: @tomecurran John Czarnecki, Fox Sports Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News: @pdomo Tony Dungy, NBC: @TonyDungy Boomer Esiason, CBS: @7BOOMERESIASON Rich Gannon, CBS: @RichGannon12 Fred Gaudelli, NBC: @NBCSNF Bob Glauber, Newsday: @BobGlauber Rick Gosselin, Talk of Fame Network: @RickGosselin9 Rodney Harrison, NBC: @Rodney_Harrison Lindsay Jones, USA Today: @bylindsayhjones Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network: @ClarkJudgeTOF Ira Kaufman, SB Nation Radio: @IKaufman76 Peter King, The MMQB: @SI_PeterKing Pat Kirwan, Sirius XM: @PatKirwanrfn Suzy Kolber, ESPN: @SuzyKolber Jeff Legwold, ESPN: @Jeff_Legwold James Lofton, CBS: @lofton80 Alex Marvez, The Sporting News: @alexmarvez John McClain, Houston Chronicle: @McLain_on_NFL Jim Miller, Sirius XM Chris Mortensen, ESPN: @mortreport Bruce Murray, Sirius XM Gary Myers, New York Daily News: @garymyersNYDN Nick Pavlatos, Sirius XM: @nflradionick Bill Polian, ESPN Dan Pompei, Bleacher Report: @danpompei Pete Prisco, CBS: @PriscoCBS Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today: @LorenzoGReyes Tim Ryan, Fox: @TimRyan99 Armando Salguero, Miami Herald: @ArmandoSalguero Adam Schein, Showtime/CBS: @AdamSchein Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: @TomSilverstein David Steele, Sporting News: @David_C_Steele Mike Tirico, NBC: @miketirico Jenny Vrentas, The MMQB: @JennyVrentas Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk: @NFLCharean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 9 hours ago, jrry32 said: Your opinion is neither justified through Baker's play/production nor through the Browns' offensive results No, it is because he isn't playing at that level yet. I have no issue rating guys highly when their play says they deserve it. Baker's play isn't on that level right now. Lets just get one thing straight... I’m definitely not in the camp that says he played better than Ben, Brady, Goff etc. but you need to watch the throws he’s made. He’s certainly not a game manager. He’s made some ridiculous throws on par with anything mahomes has done this year. That’s NOT saying he’s as good as _______. Just that you’re underestimating him. He’s a boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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