My off season wish list!

[Cheech]

12 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Bulaga is one of the top rated pass blocking RTs in the NFL?

Graham has a broken freaking thumb?

You're not going to find a better RT on the street for the $ that Bulaga gets.  Yes, draft a tackle high if he's there, but I don't see the risk being worth the reward in gaining 6 million in cap space vs. Losing a guy who we know can still get the job done.

Same with Graham.  Is he worth 10m? No, but he is worth the pennies we would save if he were cut this year.

 

I'd be against Mo Wilk unless he came at half the cost that he came at this year.  Adams has done very little to inspire confidence, but DL take time.  We've given up on guys like Lawrence Guy and the kid from Mich State who have gone on to other teams and figured it out.  Lancaster is fine as a 5th DT.

 

Free agency: 

Edge, ILB, Safety, IOL

Draft:

First 3 picks:

EDGE, Tackle, Safety

Day 3:

Edge, TE, IOL, ILB, RB

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Agreed that he's not the star athlete he once was, but he can still run the seam and still be a big target. 

It'll come for Graham, none of the other TEs we've brought in were good through the first twelve weeks. That's a position that will take adjustment. 

The new coach has to figure out how to best utilize his style of play. I do like him for the next year at least. Bennett being brought in was a huge error in judgement and it cost us big time. Rodgers has to use him

[coachbuns]

49 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Yes, I agree so here is the over the cap for Green Bay in 2019. If you chose to drink or not is not my issue.

Jimmy Graham, if we keep him we pay him 12,666,666 for the year. If we cut him we have 7,333,334 in 'dead money', but we save 5,333,332 which is added to our cap money. You keep trying to equate what we save to what we could bring in and that is not apples to apples. 

Your thought is it is better to pay him 12.6 million than lose 7. 

My thought is it is better to add 5.3 to our already 50 million on cap space (added the carryover from 2018) than to pay this guy 12.6 and still have a position in disarray.  

The financially prudent move is to admit your mistakes, minimize your losses and move one. He's still on the books for 2020 so you whip out that as well. I know math is hard, but this is pretty basic business economics. 

$12,666,666

$7,333,334

$5,333,332

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

For 5 mil I'd keep him another year and then reevaluate.

[AlexGreen#20]

55 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Yes, I agree so here is the over the cap for Green Bay in 2019. If you chose to drink or not is not my issue.

Jimmy Graham, if we keep him we pay him 12,666,666 for the year. If we cut him we have 7,333,334 in 'dead money', but we save 5,333,332 which is added to our cap money. You keep trying to equate what we save to what we could bring in and that is not apples to apples. 

Your thought is it is better to pay him 12.6 million than lose 7. 

My thought is it is better to add 5.3 to our already 50 million on cap space (added the carryover from 2018) than to pay this guy 12.6 and still have a position in disarray.  

The financially prudent move is to admit your mistakes, minimize your losses and move one. He's still on the books for 2020 so you whip out that as well. I know math is hard, but this is pretty basic business economics. 

$12,666,666

$7,333,334

$5,333,332

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

Where do you think Graham ranks as a player among starting TEs?

You're talking about him like you think he's a bottom 5 guy

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, Golfman said:

Your thought is it is better to pay him 12.6 million than lose 7. 

My thought is it is better to add 5.3 to our already 50 million on cap space (added the carryover from 2018) than to pay this guy 12.6 and still have a position in disarray.  

The financially prudent move is to admit your mistakes, minimize your losses and move one. He's still on the books for 2020 so you whip out that as well. I know math is hard, but this is pretty basic business economics. 

And normally, I'd have no issue with that.  But how do you plan on replacing his production?  As I've mentioned ad nauseam, rookie TEs rarely make an impact as rookies and the FA class consists of Jared Cook, Tyler Eifert, and a bunch of crap in FA.  Are we really that cash strapped that we need the ~$5M from releasing Jimmy Graham?

[Golfman]

33 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

And normally, I'd have no issue with that.  But how do you plan on replacing his production?  As I've mentioned ad nauseam, rookie TEs rarely make an impact as rookies and the FA class consists of Jared Cook, Tyler Eifert, and a bunch of crap in FA.  Are we really that cash strapped that we need the ~$5M from releasing Jimmy Graham?

First of all it isn't a one for one deal. You neglect to also mention the cap space cleared in 2020. 

 His production will go down next year with the second year leap of the young WR's. Second, no we are not that cash strapped that we really need to cut him. I mentioned it probably won't happen in original post. Doesn't mean we shouldn't though.

Sign Jesse James who is young and a willing blocker. He's like the 5th option in Pittsburgh and Graham has been 2 or 3 on our offense. That is terrible production on our offense. 

Bottom line, I don't think we'll ever agree on this and that is OK. 

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, Golfman said:

First of all it isn't a one for one deal. You neglect to also mention the cap space cleared in 2020. 

 His production will go down next year with the second year leap of the young WR's. Second, no we are not that cash strapped that we really need to cut him. I mentioned it probably won't happen in original post. Doesn't mean we shouldn't though.

Sign Jesse James who is young and a willing blocker. He's like the 5th option in Pittsburgh and Graham has been 2 or 3 on our offense. That is terrible production on our offense. 

Bottom line, I don't think we'll ever agree on this and that is OK. 

We save an extra ~$3.7M in 2020 by releasing him now instead of next offseason, which really amounts to closer to $3M when you talk about a replacement player in terms of cap hits.  So it's really a rather nominal amount that the Packers are paying Graham in 2020.

And it's not a given his production will go down.  In fact, I'd argue it's more likely it goes up with an entire offseason with Rodgers and a new offense.  Like you said, we're not cash strapped so there's no incentive to move on from him.  Is he overpaid for what he's producing?  Probably.  But that doesn't mean you move on from him simply because he had a bad season.

[vegas492]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We save an extra ~$3.7M in 2020 by releasing him now instead of next offseason, which really amounts to closer to $3M when you talk about a replacement player in terms of cap hits.  So it's really a rather nominal amount that the Packers are paying Graham in 2020.

And it's not a given his production will go down.  In fact, I'd argue it's more likely it goes up with an entire offseason with Rodgers and a new offense.  Like you said, we're not cash strapped so there's no incentive to move on from him.  Is he overpaid for what he's producing?  Probably.  But that doesn't mean you move on from him simply because he had a bad season.

Just jumping into this, Cwood.  Not being critical of what you said, just expanding upon it.

I think if we are being fair...regarding Graham, he is absolutely getting over paid.  And...who cares?  GB is under the cap now...will be next year and the "savings" is minimal when you look at trying to replace him in the offense.

In regards to being overpaid, let's look at underpaid.  Despite the contract, is Adams underpaid?  Fackrell?  Martinez?  Clark?  That's the way of the NFL.  Very few contracts end up being "fair" value to the team and the player.  That's life in the NFL.

I giggle a little when I see that guys like Jesse James will come in and give you numbers like Graham.  It is going to take time for any player to come in and get in synch with our quarterback.

It is far, far more likely that next year will be a better year for Graham in GB.  Add in a little more Tonyan and you will get Jesse James type production from him at a fraction of the cost.  The time to really look at moving on from Graham isn't now, it is in a year from now.

[Jaire_Island]

I am aginst signing Jimmy G right from the beginning, but hope better things happen in future.

He was not great with Seahawks in his 1st season too and he was good in his 2nd season.

My problem with him was he looked real slow so far this season. We have missed on Eric Ebron.

Man that Colts GM turned one of the worst roster into best roster in the span of 2 years. They have lot of money to spend coming offseason too..

[Golfman]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Where do you think Graham ranks as a player among starting TEs?

You're talking about him like you think he's a bottom 5 guy

For 12 million a year being the highest paid TE I expect all-pro production. He's middle of the road being paid like he's the best player at the position. The financials say move on IMO. Aaron Donald highest paid at his position. Khalil Mack, highest paid at his position. Suh, a one-year prove it deal which would have been appropriate for Jimmy Graham. This was a bad contract and it's not hindsight. I thought both his and Tramon Williams deals were terrible signings. 

Again, just my opinion, but a guy who looks really slow at 33 doesn't all of a sudden get faster, quicker at 34. Survey says, he probably looks slower. 

My opinion again, we're better off getting a guy like Jesse James, who can block and catch a few. A better run game would help out Rodgers in the pass game and he'll have a plethora of options in the passing game next year. 

[Golfman]

Here is the deal! The threat is, "My off season wish list!" 

I am fully aware that Bulaga and Graham are most likely back next year, sadly, Tramon too. I hope I'm not here next year telling you, "I told you so," on both/all of them. 

We need to upgrade, IMO, EDGE, OL, TE and S this off season in a big way. We also need to prepare to extend Martinez and Clark. Clark could wait until after 2019, and we will give him the 5th year option, but the price is going to get bigger every year. 

I am perfectly fine, with other points of view on these subject and enjoy the conversation. I get how there are posters who want Clay Matthews back when he provides little to nothing at this point in his career. I've come off of my get rid of Nick Perry stance because the financial gain isn't that great and how many guys can you bail on. 

I'm also pretty resigned to the fact Mason Crosby will be our kicker next year. I simply do not trust this guy in clutch time. I never will! 

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays or Festivus for the rest of ya's! 

Now that we're in the middle of the draft again, should we start talking about trading down and what we can get? 

[Leader]

Just now, Golfman said:

Now that we're in the middle of the draft again, should we start talking about trading down and what we can get? 

No, no.....we should be considering / talking about swimming upstream.....not downstream.
Upstream's where the "over the fireplace mantle" stuffs at

[AlexGreen#20]

20 minutes ago, Golfman said:

For 12 million a year being the highest paid TE I expect all-pro production. He's middle of the road being paid like he's the best player at the position. The financials say move on IMO. Aaron Donald highest paid at his position. Khalil Mack, highest paid at his position. Suh, a one-year prove it deal which would have been appropriate for Jimmy Graham. This was a bad contract and it's not hindsight. I thought both his and Tramon Williams deals were terrible signings. 

Again, just my opinion, but a guy who looks really slow at 33 doesn't all of a sudden get faster, quicker at 34. Survey says, he probably looks slower. 

My opinion again, we're better off getting a guy like Jesse James, who can block and catch a few. A better run game would help out Rodgers in the pass game and he'll have a plethora of options in the passing game next year. 

First of all, Jesse James is a lousy blocker. I don't know where this idea that James is going to help the ground game is coming from. 

Graham has been open this year. A lot. We're just not throwing him the ball.

[forthegame]

1 hour ago, Jaire_Island said:

I am aginst signing Jimmy G right from the beginning, but hope better things happen in future.

He was not great with Seahawks in his 1st season too and he was good in his 2nd season.

My problem with him was he looked real slow so far this season. We have missed on Eric Ebron.

Man that Colts GM turned one of the worst roster into best roster in the span of 2 years. They have lot of money to spend coming offseason too..

They have the same stats minus touchdowns Ebron would have the same problem Graham is having Adams touchdown catches 

[jleisher]

I am going to throw my two cents into this discussion.  IMO, protecting Rodgers should be our #1 concern.  We can't afford to have him go down or get hurt for the third season in a row.  Cutting Bulaga is this years argument like cutting Cobb and Matthews was last year.  I was for keeping both, and neither one was a factor, could their money have been used on someone else that could have been a factor, looking back, sure.  Now it's Bulaga, Green Bay talked with him about a pay cut last offseason and he declined.  That tells me that someone else is thinking the same way as me.  He just can't stay healthy, could they move him inside to RG and sign Ja'Wuan James from Miami to play RT?  Fixing that OL should be #1, Edge #2 and S #3.