Tom Savage formally named starting QB

[ET80]

One thing I'd like to see (not sure if it'll happen) is Watson treated like Steve McNair was. Backup to Chris Chandler, but inserted into the lineup during specific scenarios and situations. Educate him during the week but then give him plays/drives a game to where he can apply his lessons in real game situations. 

We saw McNair have a fantastic career for Tennessee - but we really never saw that way of bringing a QB up used afterwards (Michael Vick was as well, but that had more to do with his unique athleticism - put him in and let his blazing speed take over). You can't say it doesn't work - not enough of a sample size to make a judgement either way.

Would be interesting.

[Pastor Dillon]

My fear is another year where BOB treats Savage like he did Brock and won't bench him 

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Pastor Dillon said:

My fear is another year where BOB treats Savage like he did Brock and won't bench him 

There was a significant difference in situations:

- Osweiler was the big ticket FA, and Savage was the 4th round, low ceiling guy. Bailing on Osweiler was admitting that the organization made a mistake, even if not everyone in the organization was on board with him from the beginning.

- Savage is still the 4th round, low ceiling guy. Nothing changed outside of him getting starter time. This time, Watson is the big ticket draft pick (not a typical draft pick, a guy they mortgaged 2018 for). Pulling Savage (at any time, for any reason) is saying the organization made the right decision, even if it means you're not drafting a T or S in the first round next season.

I'd argue if he DOESN'T put Watson in at some point, he'd be under scrutiny. I think O'Brien knows this, too.

[Pastor Dillon]

17 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

There was a significant difference in situations:

- Osweiler was the big ticket FA, and Savage was the 4th round, low ceiling guy. Bailing on Osweiler was admitting that the organization made a mistake, even if not everyone in the organization was on board with him from the beginning.

- Savage is still the 4th round, low ceiling guy. Nothing changed outside of him getting starter time. This time, Watson is the big ticket draft pick (not a typical draft pick, a guy they mortgaged 2018 for). Pulling Savage (at any time, for any reason) is saying the organization made the right decision, even if it means you're not drafting a T or S in the first round next season.

I'd argue if he DOESN'T put Watson in at some point, he'd be under scrutiny. I think O'Brien knows this, too.

Giving up on Savage mid season is admitting that in 4 years he couldn't develop a QB. He's not gonna do that unless he has absolutely no choice 

[ET80]

2 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Giving up on Savage mid season is admitting that in 4 years he couldn't develop a QB. He's not gonna do that unless he has absolutely no choice 

I think you're overthinking this. How many 4th round and below QBs are currently starting in the NFL? You have Brady - who is an outlier, a lottery ticket that hit for the Patriots - Dak, Tyrod Taylor (Buffalo is basically tanking for Darnold, so you see how they feel about him) Trevor Simien (who is only starting because Paxton Lynch is a bust) Kirk Cousins (another lottery ticket that hit) and Brian Hoyer (who is keeping the seat warm for Josh Rosen or Mason Rudolph). So, six in a 32 team league. 18% of all starting QBs. Three of them are long term/franchise guys, three are seat warmers. So 9% of all starting QBs. Not exactly a trend to bank on, or a major cost against anyone invested in him. 

Giving up on him acknowledges that he's like the majority of 4th round picks in the NFL, a competent backup/depth guy. Missing on him means zero to anyone who really pays attention.

Only those who are looking for flaws are going to make it into anything (specifically speaking to you as that person. Literally, JUST you).

[Pastor Dillon]

19 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I think you're overthinking this. How many 4th round and below QBs are currently starting in the NFL? You have Brady - who is an outlier, a lottery ticket that hit for the Patriots - Dak, Tyrod Taylor (Buffalo is basically tanking for Darnold, so you see how they feel about him) Trevor Simien (who is only starting because Paxton Lynch is a bust) Kirk Cousins (another lottery ticket that hit) and Brian Hoyer (who is keeping the seat warm for Josh Rosen or Mason Rudolph). So, six in a 32 team league. 18% of all starting QBs. Three of them are long term/franchise guys, three are seat warmers. So 9% of all starting QBs. Not exactly a trend to bank on, or a major cost against anyone invested in him. 

Giving up on him acknowledges that he's like the majority of 4th round picks in the NFL, a competent backup/depth guy. Missing on him means zero to anyone who really pays attention.

Only those who are looking for flaws are going to make it into anything (specifically speaking to you as that person. Literally, JUST you).

Except he's a 4th rounder who "beat out" our first rounder 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Except he's a 4th rounder who "beat out" our first rounder 

... literally JUST you see this as the case. No one else.

[ET80]

On 9/1/2017 at 0:29 PM, EliteTexan80 said:

On 9/1/2017 at 11:43 AM, Pastor Dillon said:

your question sums it all up, he was given the job and what has he done to lose the job? The answer might be nothing, but the truth is he hasnt done anything to win the job. Can we all agree that there was never a competition at QB?

85% would be impressive if they werent all check downs to wide open receivers. 

Never doubted there wasn't. Said it a few times, it would have taken a massive collapse from Savage and an incredible performance from Watson to even alter the balance. If the entire preseason was the first two drives in the Carolina game for Savage and the rest of the Carolina game for Watson, THEN maybe there's an argument.

Bumping this, and highlighting some key points. At this point, you're so confused you're forgetting what we're talking about.

[ET80]

20 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

- Savage is still the 4th round, low ceiling guy. Nothing changed outside of him getting starter time. This time, Watson is the big ticket draft pick (not a typical draft pick, a guy they mortgaged 2018 for). Pulling Savage (at any time, for any reason) is saying the organization made the right decision, even if it means you're not drafting a T or S in the first round next season

Bumping this too, because you seem to be the only person - not on just the forum, but perhaps anywhere in Texans Nation - that thinks this is some multi year plan where Savage starts beyond this season. 

Nobody is disillusioned. Watson was brought in to be the franchise QB. Bill O'Brien said this - word for word - when he confirmed Savage as the starter.

[Pastor Dillon]

Please show me where I indicated in any way that I believe Savage will be starting long term. I have literally been complaining that they are not handing the job to Watson week 1 because we all know he's the future. They just have this love fest with Savage for some unknown reason. 

You are literally making stuff up to defend a terrible coach for some crazy unknown reason. 

[ET80]

20 minutes ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Please show me where I indicated in any way that I believe Savage will be starting long term. 

5 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

Giving up on Savage mid season is admitting that in 4 years he couldn't develop a QB. He's not gonna do that unless he has absolutely no choice 

 

Here.

You're the one trying to spin this "failure" angle on developing a QB who might start 16 games. Who the heck is going to be able to evaluate anything on a single season?

20 minutes ago, Pastor Dillon said:

You are literally making stuff up to defend a terrible coach for some crazy unknown reason. 

Whatever helps you sleep at night. 

Most successful coach in Texans history, taken this team as far as any coach in half the time. But OK, let's fire him. He's horrible.

Does he owe you money or something?

[ET80]

On 9/1/2017 at 3:53 PM, Pastor Dillon said:

My fear is another year where BOB treats Savage like he did Brock and won't bench him 

Another example.

[shep0507]

2 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Bumping this too, because you seem to be the only person - not on just the forum, but perhaps anywhere in Texans Nation - that thinks this is some multi year plan where Savage starts beyond this season. 

You must not spend much time on the Facebook "Fan" pages. They are littered with people that think the starting job is Savage's birthright and that he somehow earned it by being the last QB that didn't get cut/traded/not resigned. Not only that, they HATE Deshaun Watson and anyone that dares to mention his name.

(Of course, many of these are the same people that said the Texans needed to draft Johnny Manziel first overall "because he's from Texas".  Seriously.)

[ET80]

5 minutes ago, shep0507 said:

You must not spend much time on the Facebook "Fan" pages. They are littered with people that think the starting job is Savage's birthright and that he somehow earned it by being the last QB that didn't get cut/traded/not resigned. Not only that, they HATE Deshaun Watson and anyone that dares to mention his name.

I gave up on Facebook a few years back. For a multitude of reasons, but the lack of semi knowledgeable football fans was a key reason.

 

5 minutes ago, shep0507 said:

(Of course, many of these are the same people that said the Texans needed to draft Johnny Manziel first overall "because he's from Texas".  Seriously.)

I remember this mularkey. Saw various iterations of it for Manziel, Colt McCoy, Titans QB, RGIII, Case Keenum...

...but, mention Derek Carr to them back in 2014, and you get "Ohes heck no, we already had a broke down Carr! Gotta draft Johnny Football, bro!"

[shep0507]

For what it's worth, I see the wisdom of Tom Savage being the #1 QB at the start of camp, and it not really being a competition. Had DW4 played lights out and not shown bouts of rookieitis, or had Tom Savage played horribly, which he did not, then Watson would have the job week 1. Barring those two circumstances, it wasn't Watson's job yet to begin with.

I NEVER liked the Tom Savage train...all the speculation that O'Brien wanted him, the actual pick, and the fact that he's been the fallback plan as a developmental QB. I evaluated him (with my feeble scouting skills) pre draft and didn't like how slow he is to read and make the play, how long he holds the ball and his inability to move in the pocket, much less out of it. He hasn't progressed past what I saw then. He's another Hoyer/Fitz/etc. He'll put them in position to win games, he'll make boneheaded plays at the wrong time and lose some games. It is what it is. That said, he made it impossible for DW4 to take over right now, and I'm ok with that.