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AnAngryAmerican

Front Office Changes?

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6 hours ago, French Fan said:

Manning in his best season was punished by Seattle at the Super Bowl. In his worst season Denver defense win superbowl 50. The defense was assembled by Elway with free agents.
The choices of Osweiller or Lynch were perhaps not the best but to say that it is a bad manager is a bit weak as an argument because he did not find THE quarterback.
How many superbowl for Aaron Rodgers? Big Ben? Luck? Rivers? Stafford? Brees?
Winning Super Bowls is an attack and a defense. The attack is rebuilding the defense is still there.
The Broncos defense with Wade Philipps has never been duplicated with the Rams. The reputation of WP is overrated in fact it is the casting error with Joe WOODS that has taken over. This is the only error that can be blamed on John Elway.

French Fan, you usually have some insightful things to say, not trying to be a jerk, but i don't get what you're saying with this post. It's like you're talking out of both sides. I think Wade Phillips got the most out of our D and won the SB. Manning got us there, or close to it, all other years - I blame other factors those years (head coach, D coach, injuries), not Manning.

I don't think Elway can draft to save his life. I think Fox was the original builder of our D. Honestly, I have no idea what goes on in that room and what Elway is good at...

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Elway has some blunders, but he’s still an excellent GM.  Bill Belichick (the best coach/GM in history) has had some horrible picks and horrible drafts, it’s part of the job.

He’s made some exceptional selections and some awful ones and he’s arguably as good as anyone in the business in targeting late round picks and UDFAs.

Aside from the 2017 draft, he’s been able to add quality players to this team in all of the rest.  No, not all of them are homeruns, but if that’s the standard you won’t be happy with any GM.

Ultimately he has to get a legitimate QB in the building.  If he can’t do that in the next 2 maybe 3 years then it may be time to move on, but the grass may not be greener on the other side, you can do far worse at GM than John Elway.

 

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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

Elway has some blunders, but he’s still an excellent GM.  Bill Belichick (the best coach/GM in history) has had some horrible picks and horrible drafts, it’s part of the job.

He’s made some exceptional selections and some awful ones and he’s arguably as good as anyone in the business in targeting late round picks and UDFAs.

Aside from the 2017 draft, he’s been able to add quality players to this team in all of the rest.  No, not all of them are homeruns, but if that’s the standard you won’t be happy with any GM.

Ultimately he has to get a legitimate QB in the building.  If he can’t do that in the next 2 maybe 3 years then it may be time to move on, but the grass may not be greener on the other side, you can do far worse at GM than John Elway.

 

He's hard to evaluate because I think his first 5 years he was possibly the best GM in the NFL and the last three have been an absolute trainwreck and borderline embarrassing. Does he still qualify as an excellent GM if the post Manning era has been horrible? Depends on the person...I'm kind of in "shrug, let's see zone" right now. 

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17 minutes ago, champ11 said:

He's hard to evaluate because I think his first 5 years he was possibly the best GM in the NFL and the last three have been an absolute trainwreck and borderline embarrassing. Does he still qualify as an excellent GM if the post Manning era has been horrible? Depends on the person...I'm kind of in "shrug, let's see zone" right now. 

Agreed except for the 2018 draft was top notch IMO.  The overall offseason is drug down by the Keenum signing, but still strong overall

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3 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Agreed except for the 2018 draft was top notch IMO.  The overall offseason is drug down by the Keenum signing, but still strong overall

The draft was really good (I’m in the QB over Chubb camp but we don’t need to go there lol) but the Von cap restructure mixed with the Keemun deal definitely leaves it as meh for me 

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54 minutes ago, champ11 said:

The draft was really good (I’m in the QB over Chubb camp but we don’t need to go there lol) but the Von cap restructure mixed with the Keemun deal definitely leaves it as meh for me 

Forgot about the restructure, yeah that definitely is a negative too.

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Like most cases where disagreement exists the extreme either way is too harsh.  Elway’s clearly got strengths and weaknesses as a GM.   We’ve rehashed them so many times it doesn’t need another tally - I think we all recognize the good and bad under his tenure.  

The big issue going forward though is if Elway can fix his weaknesses.  Because those weaknesses are why the franchise is struggling - his 2013-17 draft struggles pre-Day 3 and his inability to find a QBOTF (he’s only missed badly 1x in HC selection with VJ so we can’t really say it’s a trend - Fox was what we needed to establish the foundation - just like his time was up when Kubiak signed on as HC).  

2018’s draft is encouraging but we need at least 1-2 more to build our roster depth.   Even then it won’t matter unless we get the right guy at QB.   1-2 good drafts won’t make us complete enough to truly contend without at least a cheap league average QB.   

It may seem unfair to say he’s now on the hot seat because Elway’s overall GM tenure shows his strengths and weaknesses.   And 2011-15 it’s hard to say there was anyone better.   But it’s also fair to say few GM would survive 2 awful QB choices (Lynch / Keenum) and a disastrous HC hire with VJ, either.    Elway has earned the chance to fix this.    But it’s not a long leash at all now.   And that’s probably more than fairly earned both ways.   

Edited by Broncofan

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17 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

French Fan, you usually have some insightful things to say, not trying to be a jerk, but i don't get what you're saying with this post. It's like you're talking out of both sides. I think Wade Phillips got the most out of our D and won the SB. Manning got us there, or close to it, all other years - I blame other factors those years (head coach, D coach, injuries), not Manning.

I don't think Elway can draft to save his life. I think Fox was the original builder of our D. Honestly, I have no idea what goes on in that room and what Elway is good at...

I'm just saying that everyone accuses Elway of being incompetent to find the quarterback franchise. Not to have renewed Wade Philipps.But the defense of Wade Philipps with the Rams is not as good as that of Denver it is thus the assembly of the players which made of this defense what it was not that coaching. We boost the coaching of Philipps.
For the QB, the best are not necessarily the ones who win the superbowl. It takes a good attack and a good defense not just one or the other. That we have no good QB do not bother me it's not a player who makes the superbowl win. He was mistaken about Vance Joseph but shooting red on him is exaggerated. I hope I have been clearer

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I,for one, refuse to believe Ellis has spent his time as CEO perfecting origami.  Instead, he has been schmoozing with very wealth business types and making a list of those who are like minded and would be candidates to be mentored in the purchase of the Denver Broncos.  The NFL can force the sale of the team if the situation negatively impacts the NFL.  And, like was mentioned earlier, Ellis and Goodell are pretty tight, so any action by the NFL would be leaked to Ellis and he can initiate his good old boy team to be Jim Dandy to the Rescue, know in advance what it will take to make the purchase and, of course, Ellis would be retained in a capacity commiserate with his talents.  Maybe not a bad deal if the buyers are Colorado based and intend on keeping the Broncos here and have have the same mindset as Pat Bowlen; build a winning franchise. 

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18 hours ago, honkeytonk said:

I,for one, refuse to believe Ellis has spent his time as CEO perfecting origami.  Instead, he has been schmoozing with very wealth business types and making a list of those who are like minded and would be candidates to be mentored in the purchase of the Denver Broncos.  The NFL can force the sale of the team if the situation negatively impacts the NFL.  And, like was mentioned earlier, Ellis and Goodell are pretty tight, so any action by the NFL would be leaked to Ellis and he can initiate his good old boy team to be Jim Dandy to the Rescue, know in advance what it will take to make the purchase and, of course, Ellis would be retained in a capacity commiserate with his talents.  Maybe not a bad deal if the buyers are Colorado based and intend on keeping the Broncos here and have have the same mindset as Pat Bowlen; build a winning franchise. 

I beg to differ. 

Ellis wants Brittany Bowlen to eventually take over as owner and, given that she is only 28, it means he can ride out his cushy job and his, I assume, seven-figure salary for another decade or so. Also, since he has been in her and Annabelle’s corner from the get-go, he would likely be retained in some capacity or at least not kicked out door as he 100% assuredly would of Beth Bowlen-Wallace and her contingent took over. 

Secondly, the other 31 billionaires who own NFL teams are not going to vote to force the sale of the team minus the Broncos doing something that is deemed bad for the business of the league at large, a la the Donald Sterling and Jerry Richardson cases. Like most consortiums, which is what the NFL (and all major pro leagues) is, they have a very strong “circle the wagons” approach to business. Goodell can say what he wants but he’s not all that powerful; he works for the owners and acts as the face of their collective businesses and handles the day-to-day administration of league matters. 

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