If you didn't want Butler fired before.... You will now.

[CKSteeler]

22 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Whatever you have to tell yourself. It’s not like no beat writer...or even national writers...poked fun at it. 

I don't care about Butler or defending him. But if Butler honestly didn't know that the Bengals second best offensive player was on IR after already playing them once this year by the end of the week before they play them in a must-win game, that doesn't reflect well on Tomlin either no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise. Especially when it wasn't that long ago that you were crowing about the role he was taking on coaching up the defense.

So let's go with that. I'm fine with it.

[warfelg]

Like I sarcastically said. It was Tomlins fault. Because Tomlin told him to say it. 

 

This is becoming, sorry, it is a joke the lengths it’s going to to make everything Tomlins fault. 

Either he didn’t know Eifert was out (problem) or he had a brain fart (kinda funny). 

[CKSteeler]

It doesn't take a lot to make this Tomlin's fault unless you believe Tomlin has no responsibility not just for who is on his staff, but who continues to be on his staff four years into a defensive rebuild that has failed. If Tomlin had wanted Butler gone, he'd have been gone last year. I know - the Rooney's and Colbert must have forced Tomlin to keep him! And a coach with 11 years of experience couldn't possibly have persuaded them otherwise over a period of months!

Maybe the real issue here is that Tomlin is too much of a company man. I mean, when things went south Cowher had it out with his GM and threatened to leave. That's actually kind of natural. But in your worldview, Tomlin's staff is mostly if not entirely forced upon him. He is...a potted plant just kind of watching as management ignores him and players do what they will. But he's irreplaceable. The results speak for themselves.

[warfelg]

Damn that Mike Tomlin for making him do that!

[warfelg]

15 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

It doesn't take a lot to make this Tomlin's fault unless you believe Tomlin has no responsibility not just for who is on his staff, but who continues to be on his staff four years into a defensive rebuild that has failed. If Tomlin had wanted Butler gone, he'd have been gone last year. I know - the Rooney's and Colbert must have forced Tomlin to keep him! And a coach with 11 years of experience couldn't possibly have persuaded them otherwise over a period of months!

Maybe the real issue here is that Tomlin is too much of a company man. I mean, when things went south Cowher had it out with his GM and threatened to leave. That's actually kind of natural. But in your worldview, Tomlin's staff is mostly if not entirely forced upon him. He is...a potted plant just kind of watching as management ignores him and players do what they will. But he's irreplaceable. The results speak for themselves.

No but it is getting exhausting to see everything, and I mean every little thing, somehow become Tomlins fault like he can control every little thing every person within the Steelers franchise does. 

I mean, it’s really exhausting. It is. Every time something goes wrong you pull the same “the buck stops with him” BS. We get it. You hate Tomlin with a passion. 

Mans the stupidest thing is you look past when one of us do criticize him, because we don’t do it with a burning passion. Or we have the audacity to insinuate that other people can make mistakes too. 

Yes, Tomlin has had a bigger hand in game planning the defense. Yes he’s had a good influence in personnel say. 

But guess what: he’s not the only one doing that. 

Butler is still the one calling the game defensively. It’s still up to the players to recognize formations and route combinations, communicating who’s got under and who’s got over (FWIW the same exact play the Patriots burned is with is the one the got Ginn open. That route shouldn’t be open against cover-3, meaning someone doesn’t adhere to assignment.)

Colbert and the scouts are still the ones that find all the players. Tomlin has a say on what type of players he’s looking for, but he’s not involved to the level you might pretend he is. Heck, the scouting team is likely already starting on the 2020 draft class. Tomlin sure isn’t even thinking of the 2019 class yet. Almost every year in their series of draft lead up videos that they say they hope the coaching staff and front office can come to an agreement, the front office and Colbert can overrule of the chose, and if no agreement can be made Dan Rooney has the ultimate tie breaker say. 

Your strict adherence to pinning anyone who says someone else isn’t doing a great job directly to Tomlin better keep going when we get a new coach. Because you can bet, there will be those that remember. Those of us who are being fair with our criticisms, and not just heaping it onto the HC, continually using worn out pointless statements. 

[warfelg]

Basically the point being:

Its 100% plausible for Tomlin to have flaws AND other people (coaches, executives, scouts, players) to be part of the issue. Which is what most of us “Blind Tomlin Defenders” are saying but not being accused of. 

On the flip side, the “Blind Tomlin Haters” refuse to acknowledge that others can have a hand in the current shortcomings of the team. 

And that’s where some of us (I know @FourThreeMafia is one and I think @wwhickok too, just to name some) are tired of hearing the same ole “Tomlins fault” argument. 

Someone said this joke about the Sixers on Twitter Christmas Day but damn if it isn’t true for the Steelers too. The Steelers are 8-0. Tomlin is 0-6-1. 

[warfelg]

So in the vein of “blame Tomlin”, listening to SXM, and a caller complained that Butlers screw up should reflect poorly on Tomlin because that means they talked about Eifert. 

The host quickly shut it down kinda simply:

He said, So you mean to tell me that between Tomlin, Butler, the two LB coaches, the DB coach, the quality control coaches, and advance team scouts did not know Eifert was out and didn’t communicate? And going further, the reporter lead him into talking about Eifert, and the guy responsible for calling plays and paying attention to the game couldn’t correct the off track questioning?

So either you have an entire staff on the same side of the ball not knowing what’s going on or a coordinator with no clue. Is either of them a good thing? And you have to ask yourself, which one is more likely, one coach not being aware or complete gross incompetence on one side of the ball (almost along with no one having the balls to say anything)?

[Chieferific]

Looks like Bowles is out. He's a 3-4 guy. Arizona may have had a little more talent with him but aside from the Secondary they look fairly similar to the Steelers especially if he could get Bucannon back. I remember those defenses being real tough. 

[3rivers]

23 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Looks like Bowles is out. He's a 3-4 guy. Arizona may have had a little more talent with him but aside from the Secondary they look fairly similar to the Steelers especially if he could get Bucannon back. I remember those defenses being real tough. 

I want a new regime and D scheme.  Clean house, stop praying for the browns to win and another game to tie.  Bringing in another DC won't matter much if the team continuously  plays uninspired vs bad teams among other things.  I have about reached the end for this regime, I enjoyed watching the last 2 minutes of the browns game more than many of our entire games.  Butler has had his share of blame, but look at today. That offence, OC and QB play was substandard and looked asleep in the first half. 

This team relied on a rookie unsigned kicker to bounce a kick in of the post from his furthest distance, at home , in the most important game of the season (in theory) while there are all these pro bowlers on offence and a HOF QB.  Enough is enough .

[CKSteeler]

On 12/29/2018 at 4:24 PM, warfelg said:

So in the vein of “blame Tomlin”, listening to SXM, and a caller complained that Butlers screw up should reflect poorly on Tomlin because that means they talked about Eifert. 

The host quickly shut it down kinda simply:

He said, So you mean to tell me that between Tomlin, Butler, the two LB coaches, the DB coach, the quality control coaches, and advance team scouts did not know Eifert was out and didn’t communicate? And going further, the reporter lead him into talking about Eifert, and the guy responsible for calling plays and paying attention to the game couldn’t correct the off track questioning?

So either you have an entire staff on the same side of the ball not knowing what’s going on or a coordinator with no clue. Is either of them a good thing? And you have to ask yourself, which one is more likely, one coach not being aware or complete gross incompetence on one side of the ball (almost along with no one having the balls to say anything)?

Tomlin has only coached with the guy the for almost 4 full years now. And he's still on the staff. So, your position is that that Tomlin has allowed an incompetent moron run the defense that entire time.

Or do you want to tell us that Tomlin doesn't control who his coordinators are on either side of the ball? Hey, I'm giving you an out here. Hint - everything else you're saying is dumb.

The truth is actually what I said in my initial post. Butler was being polite to his team employed interviewer and not clueless. But for some reason, this story spoke to you. I wonder why.