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vike daddy

Free ain't free in the NFL...

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10 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

You know the draft hasn't happened yet, right?

I did say coaches and draft in the third part, did I not?

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1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said:

I did say coaches and draft in the third part, did I not?

Yes. So why are you saying we aren't going to address it? LB becomes an immediate need if Barr walks. Saffold reportedly did not want to come here, so we would have had to overpay quite a bit to get him here. Maybe the coaches don't think Elflein can play guard, so they didn't want to sign Paradis since we still would have needed two guards (not that Elflein is an all-star, but I don't think we can give up on him). We can still sign a couple potential starters/depth pieces. Free agency isn't done. We signed Stephen and Barr, so we don't have any glaring needs on the defense in the draft, especially if we can keep Griffen. We have set ourselves up to completely focus on the OL through the draft.

You may think the defense wasn't great, but we gave up the 4th least yards last year (which I think is one of the best metrics for defensive success) and were the 9th best scoring defense. Our defense was still really really good even though it wasn't as good as the 2017 unit. I am not a fan of weakening our strongest unit to take a couple swings at high priced free agent OL. 

Now, if we don't take an OL in the first 2 rounds of the draft, I will be on your side.

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5 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

Yes. So why are you saying we aren't going to address it? LB becomes an immediate need if Barr walks. Saffold reportedly did not want to come here, so we would have had to overpay quite a bit to get him here. Maybe the coaches don't think Elflein can play guard, so they didn't want to sign Paradis since we still would have needed two guards (not that Elflein is an all-star, but I don't think we can give up on him). We can still sign a couple potential starters/depth pieces. Free agency isn't done. We signed Stephen and Barr, so we don't have any glaring needs on the defense in the draft, especially if we can keep Griffen. We have set ourselves up to completely focus on the OL through the draft.

You may think the defense wasn't great, but we gave up the 4th least yards last year (which I think is one of the best metrics for defensive success) and were the 9th best scoring defense. Our defense was still really really good even though it wasn't as good as the 2017 unit. I am not a fan of weakening our strongest unit to take a couple swings at high priced free agent OL. 

Now, if we don't take an OL in the first 2 rounds of the draft, I will be on your side.

they didn't need defense last year, and chose a CB first round......Since Zimmer got here, they have one OL chosen before round 3. One new OL does NOT fix this OL.....

They have how many playoff wins emphasizing defense first?

Are you suggesting there are good starting OL left in FA?

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Just now, PrplChilPill said:

they didn't need defense last year, and chose a CB first round......Since Zimmer got here, they have one OL chosen before round 3. One new OL does NOT fix this OL.....

They have how many playoff wins emphasizing defense first?

Are you suggesting there are good starting OL left in FA?

1) We still got a good starting OL in the draft last year, and had no reason to think Elflein would play as poorly as he did. I'm not denying we could have drafted/signed more OL, but the Hughes pick was foresight because we won't be able to pay Wayne's and Zimmer asks a lot of his CB's.

2) That's definitely the best argument, but I guess I'd rather know we'd be in contention every year than risk having a bad offense and defense. I understand the contrary though.

3) And no. In my post I said potential starters/depth pieces. Easton/Compton types. Not world beaters but could be average starters.

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12 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

but the Hughes pick was foresight because we won't be able to pay Wayne's

Almost makes me wonder if Hughes didn’t get hurt if we would have seen more willingness to move from Waynes

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I wholeheartedly disagree with Rick Spielman's approach to team building. Choosing to leave the first wave of free agency by signing Anthony Barr for $13.5M per year while not addressing the offensive line is highly questionable. The offensive line is a far more valuable position group than the linebacker group. The only offensive positional group that a higher premium should be placed on is QB. Including defense, only pass rushers and QBs are more premium positions. If you can't protect your passer and rush the other team's passer you are trying to thread such a small needle that it hardly matters what your other positional groups look like. 

Given a choice of improving one of these two before leaving the first wave of free agency:

  1. A starting LB group of Kendricks, Gadeon, and Wilson
  2. A starting OL group of Reiff, Isidora, Elflein, ???, O'Neil

The choice is pretty obvious. I can't even pick out a name of which guy would be the second starting guard right now but presumably it would be worse than Isidora. And even if Isidora was the second best guard on the team instead of the best I would choose improving the offensive line over improving that LBer group.

Watching Spielman make this flawed choice one more time is almost enough for me to rest my case against him. I am almost ready to completely put down hope until Rick has been fired; I'll work to restrain myself at least until the first pick in the draft to see if Rick has a plan. If the plan turns out to be hoping to get lucky in the draft I will be pushing hard for Rick's firing (at least to the extent that I can still bother myself to care at that point. I may just detach emotionally like I did during the Childress years)

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Posted (edited)

While I don't disagree with the premise, I'm not throwing $15M at a pile of dung, which is basically what the offensive line market was.  It was the equivalent of paying $25 for a Big Mac.  While a Big Mac is fine, I ain't paying a T-Bone steak price for it.  

Edited by swede700

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Just now, swede700 said:

While I don't disagree with the premise, I'm not throwing $15M at a pile of dung, which is basically what the offensive line market was.  

Bingo. 

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7 minutes ago, swede700 said:

While I don't disagree with the premise, I'm not throwing $15M at a pile of dung, which is basically what the offensive line market was.  It was the equivalent of paying $25 for a Big Mac.  While a Big Mac is fine, I ain't paying a T-Bone steak price for it.  

Paradis signed for 9MM a year. Saffold for less than 15MM a year. DId any IOL sign for 15MM a year?

Would you rather have Paradis and the best FA kicker, or Barr? I know my answer. 

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1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said:

Paradis signed for 9MM a year. Saffold for less than 15MM a year. DId any IOL sign for 15MM a year?

Would you rather have Paradis and the best FA kicker, or Barr? I know my answer. 

Was Paradis an option? Was there some ultimatum between Barr and Paradis? Or Barr and Saffold?

When the team doesn’t sign someone, or a player chooses somewhere else to play, fans need to stop acting like their team would have been able to get that player for the same deal, or that said players were even interested. Other than fan interest, there was no reported interest between the Vikings and Paradis. And while the Vikings appeared to have interest in Saffold, there didn’t appear to be any interest from Saffold. 

So, why does this come down to a “they chose Barr over lineman X”?  

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8 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

Paradis signed for 9MM a year. Saffold for less than 15MM a year. DId any IOL sign for 15MM a year?

Would you rather have Paradis and the best FA kicker, or Barr? I know my answer. 

Assuming Paradis or Saffold actually would have come here 

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Just now, PrplChilPill said:

Paradis signed for 9MM a year. Saffold for less than 15MM a year. DId any IOL sign for 15MM a year?

Would you rather have Paradis and the best FA kicker, or Barr? I know my answer. 

We don't know whether Paradis had any interest in coming to MN.  And I really wasn't interested in signing Saffold for the kind of money he got.  He's just not good (and at 31, far too old) enough to warrant it.  For Paradis money?  Sure, I'd consider it, but even then, I'm not sure, with his track record, he's worth the money.

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4 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Was Paradis an option? Was there some ultimatum between Barr and Paradis? Or Barr and Saffold?

When the team doesn’t sign someone, or a player chooses somewhere else to play, fans need to stop acting like their team would have been able to get that player for the same deal, or that said players were even interested. Other than fan interest, there was no reported interest between the Vikings and Paradis. And while the Vikings appeared to have interest in Saffold, there didn’t appear to be any interest from Saffold. 

So, why does this come down to a “they chose Barr over lineman X”?  

Any lineman, not a specific one. I just used him as an example. No OL was signed here that anyone on this board thinks is a decent starter.

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Posted (edited)

The Vikings have had essentially the same opportunities to bring in offensive linemen throughout the years as any other team in the league. I am not going to comment on any particular player as it is no single player that bothers me that much. It is a trend that year-in and year-out Rick Spielman has failed to correct the offensive line. Rick has overall had as good a chance to fix the offensive line as any other general manager and he has failed miserably. Year after year the Vikings have watched the offensive line be the primary thing holding them back. The Status quo is not okay with me. I was willing to give Rick one last chance to solve the riddle. I admit that by this point he had put himself in a bad situation and his odds of success weren't good but it was a last chance. Throughout the years he has had just as good a chance as anyone. He has failed. Again.

Defending him based on a certain player being over priced this year is not a worthwhile debate for me. I am happy that some of you are able to rationalize the continual failure. That is nice for you. Unfortunately, I can't. Nor would I want to.

 

Edited by Cearbhall

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