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Free ain't free in the NFL...


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1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

So, you’d have just been ok with them giving $10M to any lineman just because it’s the team’s biggest need?

Did I actually say that? Any lineman? Did I? I don't think so. Look you want to argue? Great, but lets argue what each other actually says. 

This is NOT about one signing, this is about 4-8 years now of failure, over and over, to fix the OL. 

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Just now, SemperFeist said:

So, you’d have just been ok with them giving $10M to any lineman just because it’s the team’s biggest need?

This was my thoughts exactly. 75% of the NFL is horrible at drafting or picking up O-line players. Yes, the position has been neglected but you cant just pickup any guy off the street and pay him over $10M because he had 1 good season in the last 5 years. Mike Remmers had that and look where he's at now....

 

I'd take healthy average O-linemen vs what we've had the last few years. You can see during the 2017 season how much that helped to have the line mostly in tact for the whole year.

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I would be okay with Rick Spielman paying whatever the market dictates it takes to not lose another year owing to having a horrendous offensive line. Wasting money on something that isn't a fix isn't acceptable. Rick has had years to get it right and he has not been able to. For a results oriented person like myself that matters. Every other team has participated in the same market and very few teams have had a line as consistently weak as the Vikings.

Edited by Cearbhall
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2 minutes ago, Saosin said:

This was my thoughts exactly. 75% of the NFL is horrible at drafting or picking up O-line players. Yes, the position has been neglected but you cant just pickup any guy off the street and pay him over $10M because he had 1 good season in the last 5 years. Mike Remmers had that and look where he's at now....

 

I'd take healthy average O-linemen vs what we've had the last few years. You can see during the 2017 season how much that helped to have the line mostly in tact for the whole year.

 

I'd take that too.....going to be hard to do at this point w/o a trade.

Edited by PrplChilPill
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11 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

The Vikings have had essentially the same opportunities to bring in offensive linemen throughout the years as any other team in the league. I am not going to comment on any particular player as it is no single player that bothers me that much. It is a trend that year-in and year-out Rick Spielman has failed to correct the offensive line. Rick has overall had as good a chance to fix the offensive line as any other general manager and he has failed miserably. Year-after-year the Vikings have watched the offensive line be the primary thing holding them back. The Status quo is not okay with me. I was willing to give Rick one last chance to solve the riddle. I admit that by this point he had put himself in a bad situation and his odds of success weren't good but it was a last chance. Throughout the years he has had just as good a chance as anyone. He has failed. Again.

Defending him based on a certain player being over priced this year is not a worthwhile debate for me. I am happy that some of you are able to rationalize the continual failure. That is nice for you. Unfortunately, I can't. Nor would I want to.

 

No one is rationalizing the entire situation, the only thing we can "rationalize" is the individual situation at the time.  Yes, it has been a continual failure, likely due to the inaccuracies of the scouting process.  No one disputes that.  It's not acceptable.  I'm fairly confident that they don't think it's acceptable either.  All they can do is strive to do better in that process. 

And it appears, with O'Neill (and possibly Elflein), they have done a little better.  You can't expect to fix the problem just by throwing money at it (see Operation Varsity Blues)...they tried that with Reiff and Remmers (and Boone and Harris before them).  

I can't say that they have failed yet again, and neither can you, because last I checked Super Bowls aren't won in March.

Edited by swede700
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I am so sick of hearing fan's excuses for the Vikings not fixing the offensive line. The only thing standing between the Vikings and a decent offensive line is the BS story they keep telling themselves as to why they can't achieve it -- if indeed they are engaging in the rationalizations I see on this board.

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3 minutes ago, swede700 said:

You can't expect to fix the problem just by throwing money at it (see Operation Varsity Blues)...they tried that with Reiff and Remmers (and Boone and Harris before them).  

I never held up those guys as success stories. Indeed, they are more stories if Rick's failure. Rick's failure is broad and I never blamed a single move or lack of move. There is more than one way to skin a cat and Rick has been given plenty of opportunities to try various options. He has failed at every turn. How one can continue to make excuses mystifies me.

Edited by Cearbhall
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1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said:

 

I'd take that too.....but they are now going to rely on what they have, the leftovers in FA, a trade of Waynes (weakening a position, which I'm told is a no no), and the draft (which I'm told you can't start two rookies on the OL, which several here have stated over and over). 

I'll try and be a bit optimistic on it. Getting rid of Waynes, isnt on the whole a bad thing especially if its for a guard. We have a lot of depth at CB at this point due to Zimmer's undying love for the position. With Hughes coming back and the play of Hill(who hopefully isnt suspended.....) I think we're good without Waynes.

 

As for the whole starting two rookies thing, New England does it every other year, why cant we? Plus if we get Nick Easton back and maybe Remmers for depth, we'll have a good group to go with for Dennison.

A-lot of this also goes around Stefanski and Kubiak and his style of O-line as well with Dennison. If they fit, they fit.

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9 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I would be okay with Rick Spielman paying whatever the market dictates it takes to not lose another year owing to having a horrendous offensive line. Wasting money on something that isn't a fix isn't acceptable. Rick has had years to get it right and he has not been able too. For a results oriented person like myself that matters. Every other team has participated in the same market and very few teams have had a line as consistently weak as the Vikings.

 

Since Spielman took over as GM in 2012, their offensive line has been in the top 10 3 times.  It's only been really bad in 2016 and last year.  2016 was the year they suffered massive injuries...and last year they lost their OL coach just prior to training camp.  I think you are far too critical of them.

I've said for at least 5 years (if not 10) now that the offensive lines as a whole throughout the league have gotten worse.  The Vikings' offensive lines, as a whole, have certainly gotten worse, but not comparatively to the whole league.  Compared to the rest of the league, they've been okay for the most part.     

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1 minute ago, swede700 said:

Since Spielman took over as GM in 2012, their offensive line has been in the top 10 3 times.

Your assessment of the state of their line is vastly different than mine. My assessment is that the Vikings line has only barely sniffed average during that time frame and been well below average for the great majority of that time. I remember 2017 after their signed Reiff they were almost average but ultimately declined throughout the year and finished the year below average. That is the closest they have come to average.

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