2018-2019 Offseason Thread (Season Concludes)

[RpMc]

1 minute ago, TENINCH said:

It's a stupid take by some fans that need to settle down

Is it really stupid? This team doesn’t seem to be up for big games and the defense seems to falter in big moments too. He’s excellent at building a defense. 

He doesn’t do well with game management, the team doesn’t seem prepared for big spots, and our offense has never managed to gain much traction under him and his coordinators. This team seems destined to be stuck as .500+ with moderate playoff success. As someone said earlier... the NFC version of the Bengals. 

[vikestyle]

Just now, RpMc said:

Is it really stupid? This team doesn’t seem to be up for big games and the defense seems to falter in big moments too. He’s excellent at building a defense. 

He doesn’t do well with game management, the team doesn’t seem prepared for big spots, and our offense has never managed to gain much traction under him and his coordinators. This team seems destined to be stuck as .500+ with moderate playoff success. As someone said earlier... the NFC version of the Bengals. 

My question is who else do you hire? Do you hire someone else who has been fired for similar reasons? Do you go with an unproven guy? Guys like Riley and Kingsbury are hot names, but completely unproven and it's hard to make the jump from college to pros. Who are the candidates out there that get you excited?

[byuvike88]

2 hours ago, gopherwrestler said:

One thing to remember with the interior offensive line. We thought we had Easton coming back, and I don’t think anyone thought Remmers could be this incredibly bad as a RG 

I don't really think they should rely on Easton coming off a back injury. If they want him as the 3rd guard, that's great but he should be plan C imo

[vikingsrule]

Just now, byuvike88 said:

I don't really think they should rely on Easton coming off a back injury. If they want him as the 3rd guard, that's great but he should be plan C imo

I think it's fine to let him compete at Guard and Center. We're likely to have an entirely new offensive coaching staff so there might not be much familiarity with Easton to rely on him. Perhaps Elflein for that matter too, he's not been good at all this year. 

[byuvike88]

Just now, vikingsrule said:

I think it's fine to let him compete at Guard and Center. We're likely to have an entirely new offensive coaching staff so there might not be much familiarity with Easton to rely on him. Perhaps Elflein for that matter too, he's not been good at all this year. 

I think it's fine to let him compete. But I still think they need 2 new guards and anything from Easton is icing on the cake. I think Elflein will be a lot better with an off season to get healthy and become stronger where he is not rehabbing the whole off season.

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

17 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Is it really stupid? This team doesn’t seem to be up for big games and the defense seems to falter in big moments too. He’s excellent at building a defense. 

He doesn’t do well with game management, the team doesn’t seem prepared for big spots, and our offense has never managed to gain much traction under him and his coordinators. This team seems destined to be stuck as .500+ with moderate playoff success. As someone said earlier... the NFC version of the Bengals. 

It's not stupid.

It's a typical Minnesota sports thing. We fall in love with someone and we tend to ignore or downplay their weaknesses/downfalls or pass the blame or make them out to be better than they are because we like them as a person. 

If someone is failing to see Zimmer has more than his fair share of issues (like you touched on), it's 100% a case of what I just said. Does that mean he should be fired? No. Of course not. However, to downplay or fail to see that Zimmer has some glaring problems that he hasn't fixed 5 years into his HC career is a mistake.

[Uncle Buck]

1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

It's hard to say he's a good head coach but he's a great defensive mind. It doesn't seems like he does the HC things well on game day and he doesn't seem to surround himself with good assistant coaches to help scheme. He's had two very bad hires on offense in Turner and DeFilippo. Shurmur was a good find, most had him written off. I don't think Stefanski is the right man for the job.

Zimmer is just screwed as a defensive minded head coach. His offensive coaching staff will always get purged if they are successful.

Were basically what the Cincinatti Bengals have been over the years, relevant but never great and can't get up for big games. Both teams have a Mediocre head coach and QB that's carried by a brilliant defense. That's good enough for a majority of today's NFL owners. I don't think anything happens to Zimmer or Spielman, yet.

But looking at Spielmans QB failures: Ponder, Teddy, Bradford and Cousins. That's three QBs that required a first round pick and one fully guaranteed FA pickup. That is where the biggest issue lies with this team.

6

The only one of them that I would truly consider a failure was Ponder.  Drafting him when we did was a total panic move and it ended that way most of us predicted it would.  Teddy was progressing nicely and suffered a horrific, freak injury.  It's pretty hard to blame Spielman for that.  Bradford was about the only real option with so little time before the season started, so I don't really blame Spielman for that either.  Finally, the book on Cousins hasn't been written yet as far as I'm concerned.  Give him some time to pass and we will see what we have with him.

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

This team is loaded...LOADED with talent.  The one area we are weak, as we all know is on the offensive line.  Coach Zimmer might not like it, but what we need to do is draft the two best guards we can get our hands on.  I don't care if there is a great defensive prospect sitting there.  We already have a great defense and that, alone, is not enough to get the job done in today's NFL.  We need to find out who are the two best guards in the draft and find a way to get both of them.  It doesn't matter what it costs.  Trade up or down, or whatever you have to do.  We just ARE NOT going to get any better without better play on the interior offensive line.  When you have as much young talent as we do on the roster already, we have the luxury of reaching for what we need for one season.  They better do it, or even I will start calling for heads to roll.

Take Long for a first round pick.   Who you gonna draft that's better? Or will help as a rookie? You just have to hope he doesnt get hurt again.  

Your window is now. You go into a rebuild in two years. 

Long looked good today.  

[vikestyle]

1 minute ago, Uncle Buck said:

The only one of them that I would truly consider a failure was Ponder.  Drafting him when we did was a total panic move and it ended that way most of us predicted it would.  Teddy was progressing nicely and suffered a horrific, freak injury.  It's pretty hard to blame Spielman for that.  Bradford was about the only real option with so little time before the season started, so I don't really blame Spielman for that either.  Finally, the book on Cousins hasn't been written yet as far as I'm concerned.  Give him some time to pass and we will see what we have with him.

I agree with everything you said. The Cousins thing is such a tough spot though. As far as I'm concerned, we had to sign him. We could have signed Keenum for $20+ million, but I don't think we make the playoffs with him this year either. However, we're paying Cousins so much we're expecting him to be something he's not. We're paying him like a guy who should be able to go out and carry a team against great competition, but that's not who he is. We want him to manage the game, but he is turnover prone by nature and isn't natural in 2 minute situations. I don't think the signing was a mistake, it was a move I think we had to make, but I also don't think we can win a super bowl with him after watching him this year. I'm just glad it was only a 3 year contract.

[vikingsrule]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

The only one of them that I would truly consider a failure was Ponder.  Drafting him when we did was a total panic move and it ended that way most of us predicted it would.  Teddy was progressing nicely and suffered a horrific, freak injury.  It's pretty hard to blame Spielman for that.  Bradford was about the only real option with so little time before the season started, so I don't really blame Spielman for that either.  Finally, the book on Cousins hasn't been written yet as far as I'm concerned.  Give him some time to pass and we will see what we have with him.

All fair points. But the injury did happen to Teddy and he never got his job back from Keenum, nor did the Vikes feel confident in keeping him at a discount over going after Cousins. Looking at the success of other young QBs like Watson, Wentz, Goff, Mahomes and even Trubisky and Prescott, it just seems much easier for a young QB to come in and play well right away. Teddy's first two years were underwhelming.

The Bradford move was pure desperation. I feel a really good GM should avoid using first round picks for desperation roster moves. There was no evidence to suggest that Bradford, of all QBs, had the ability to step in and be part of a playoff caliber team.

[dll2000]

Who wants to go be OC for Zimmer?

He pointed finger at his last OC and fired him in season, kinda forgot offense carried team in early games when defense was bad.  Didn't point finger at D then.

You have to be perfect or HC won't back you and will blame you. 

And he might be a lame duck.  Pass. 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

It's hard to say he's a good head coach but he's a great defensive mind. It doesn't seems like he does the HC things well on game day and he doesn't seem to surround himself with good assistant coaches to help scheme. He's had two very bad hires on offense in Turner and DeFilippo. Shurmur was a good find, most had him written off. I don't think Stefanski is the right man for the job.

Zimmer is just screwed as a defensive minded head coach. His offensive coaching staff will always get purged if they are successful.

Were basically what the Cincinatti Bengals have been over the years, relevant but never great and can't get up for big games. Both teams have a Mediocre head coach and QB that's carried by a brilliant defense. That's good enough for a majority of today's NFL owners. I don't think anything happens to Zimmer or Spielman, yet.

But looking at Spielmans QB failures: Ponder, Teddy, Bradford and Cousins. That's three QBs that required a first round pick and one fully guaranteed FA pickup. That is where the biggest issue lies with this team.

This is catch 22 of having a defensive head coach.  If your offense is good the OC leaves and you start over.  

If your offense is bad, well that isn't good either.

NE is exception because they run same offense regardless of OC. They have a program.   

[vikingsrule]

Just now, dll2000 said:

This is catch 22 of having a defensive head coach.  If your offense is good the OC leaves and you start over.  

If your offense is bad, well that isn't good either.

NE is exception because they run same offense regardless of OC. They have a program.   

Which has to be inspired by the HC. How have we seen Zimmer inspire the offense over the years other than expecting to run a balanced attack. It seems like he's very hands off and brings in experienced OCs (except for DeFilippo I guess).

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, vikingsrule said:

Which has to be inspired by the HC. How have we seen Zimmer inspire the offense over the years other than expecting to run a balanced attack. It seems like he's very hands off and brings in experienced OCs (except for DeFilippo I guess).

His job is to put pressure on OC which doesnt really help.  Buddy Ryan had same problem in Philly back in the day. 

[whitehops]

first of all, people saying zimmer or spielman will get fired tomorrow are insane. spielman has constructed one of the more complete rosters in the league and gotten the team over the hump of paying their young talent.

and people talking about zimmer being fired are just using selective memory. this team HAS won big games under him but they've also lost big games; it's not like we've lost every critical game. we've also had a top 10 defense the past three seasons, top 5 the last two years. with even an average offense that's good enough to make the playoffs. 

for whatever game-day weaknesses you think zimmer might have, it's being overlooked that he's built a culture that has made minnesota a free agent destination (richardson, iloka, tom johnson, newman, etc.) and has allowed us to keep our young studs (namely diggs and hunter) on discounted contracts. 

 

honestly cousins really worries me if we plan to contend the next two years. his body language today was brutal. he seemed tense at the best of times and had multiple freakouts (at cook, diggs and thielen) whenever something went wrong. that coupled with the reports of him being super meticulous and trying to be perfect all the time really paints a picture of an individual who can't handle stress well and won;t be able to handle the pressure of big games.