tomlin lovers

[JustPlainNasty]

Tomlin does need to answer for games like today and his 18-12 record vs teams under .500 ..For a team of this quality that record should be more like 22-8 or 26-4. Tomlin basically says that the results are due to turnover ratio and kicking game, however are you saying that you are not responsible for managing out of those situations? 

"Such is life" ...Life does not always go as planned. We are not only judged by when things go right, but how we respond to when things go wrong and the unexpected.

Today may have been one of the saddest statements for Tomlins teams other than the regular losses to Oakland, and any team past the Rocky Mountains really.

[warfelg]

12 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Tomlin does need to answer for games like today and his 18-12 record vs teams under .500 ..For a team of this quality that record should be more like 22-8 or 26-4. Tomlin basically says that the results are due to turnover ratio and kicking game, however are you saying that you are not responsible for managing out of those situations? 

"Such is life" ...Life does not always go as planned. We are not only judged by when things go right, but how we respond to when things go wrong and the unexpected.

Today may have been one of the saddest statements for Tomlins teams other than the regular losses to Oakland, and any team past the Rocky Mountains really.

Don't disagree with much of this.

Except for the turnover ratio part.  Tomlin isn't really responsible for Ben throwing it right at a Bengals defender when there wasn't a penalty called.  Tomlin isn't responsible for defensive players not catching balls thrown right at them.  He's not responsible for Grimble putting the ball in the wrong hand and putting personal glory over team results.  Sorry, but I can't blame Tomlin for the turnover margin.  That's on players to execute.

[JustPlainNasty]

6 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Don't disagree with much of this.

Except for the turnover ratio part.  Tomlin isn't really responsible for Ben throwing it right at a Bengals defender when there wasn't a penalty called.  Tomlin isn't responsible for defensive players not catching balls thrown right at them.  He's not responsible for Grimble putting the ball in the wrong hand and putting personal glory over team results.  Sorry, but I can't blame Tomlin for the turnover margin.  That's on players to execute.

I didn't blame that on him at all. Its part of the equation, how he responds to it thereafter is what is questioned.  Not to mention how do you not question your own leadership when your team shows up like it did today. Somebody needs to put this guy in front of a mirror. 

[warfelg]

Just now, JustPlainNasty said:

I didn't blame that on him at all. Its part of the equation, how he responds to it thereafter is what is questioned. 

Eh.  That's his personality to no air out the dirty laundry and keep it in house though.  I really don't have an issue with how he responds to them TBH.  I see, especially when it's Ben's turnovers, and exasperation with the turnovers.  Almost like he's admitting Ben's a gunslinger and there's not much you can do about it and he's tired of it.  The guys at Steelers Depot have been echoing the same thing most the year too.

[JustPlainNasty]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Eh.  That's his personality to no air out the dirty laundry and keep it in house though.  I really don't have an issue with how he responds to them TBH.  I see, especially when it's Ben's turnovers, and exasperation with the turnovers.  Almost like he's admitting Ben's a gunslinger and there's not much you can do about it and he's tired of it.  The guys at Steelers Depot have been echoing the same thing most the year too.

Im not talking about what he says in a press conference. Im talking about how he coaches out of the situation. He has a gameplan, he chooses to throw it 70% of the time, thats on him. The running game has still not been "stopped". Even if it is you dont bail on it after one series.

 

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Im not talking about what he says in a press conference. Im talking about how he coaches out of the situation. He has a gameplan, he chooses to throw it 70% of the time, thats on him. The running game has still not been "stopped". Even if it is you dont bail on it after one series.

So this is the same place I get on CK for.  Tomlin isn't the only coach making that call.  Fitchners in on it.  Heck Ben's in on it.  What about Ben's comments earlier this year about not caring about throwing INTs.  Why not bring in that as part of the equation?

This is an issue of taking something that should be blamed on multiple people and putting it on one.  And that's BS to do.  I'm sorry but it is.  We see games where we have a 50/50 balance. And we see good games out of that.  The game plan against some teams leave more to be desired, but in order to come to that it takes A LOT of coaches to agree on that particular game plan being the right one.

So either justly spread the blame, or just admit it's the team.

 

EDIT:

And this is where I hate getting called a "TOMLIN LOVER".  Just because I am a realist in understanding that his voice isn't the only one that matters and say it isn't 100% his fault, people freak out like I'm not blaming him for something.

So if he is 100% at fault for something like this either everyone in that locker room and office is a yes man to him, or he rules with an iron fist and is an awful guy to work for.

Otherwise other people in that building have something that supports the decisions they make.

[JustPlainNasty]

Im not asking for Tomlin's head. I think he'll get to play out Bens time here.

Live and die by the sword I suppose when it comes to Ben. A measure of expectation can be reflected on Favre/Holmgren. Nobody threw more picks than Brett. 

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Im not asking for Tomlin's head. I think he'll get to play out Bens time here.

Live and die by the sword I suppose when it comes to Ben. A measure of expectation can be reflected on Favre/Holmgren. Nobody threw more picks than Brett. 

And that's all I think with that one.  It's a double edged sword.  And I think Tomlin is a little frustrated with it.  The best way to win is to put the ball in Ben's hands.  But at the same time, Ben is going to lose you a bunch of games because the ball is in his hands.

[JustPlainNasty]

4 minutes ago, warfelg said:

So this is the same place I get on CK for.  Tomlin isn't the only coach making that call.  Fitchners in on it.  Heck Ben's in on it.  What about Ben's comments earlier this year about not caring about throwing INTs.  Why not bring in that as part of the equation?

This is an issue of taking something that should be blamed on multiple people and putting it on one.  And that's BS to do.  I'm sorry but it is.  We see games where we have a 50/50 balance. And we see good games out of that.  The game plan against some teams leave more to be desired, but in order to come to that it takes A LOT of coaches to agree on that particular game plan being the right one.

So either justly spread the blame, or just admit it's the team.

Tomlins the head coach. When you are the CEO of a company you dont blame it on an employee. You put that employee in place to represent you. If you cant handle it the way you want it represented than somebody should be in place that can. Again Im not hating on Tomlin, this is just the reality of business. Its not "fair" or whatever. Its his job, he's culpable for everything unless the order to do something comes from above. 

[JustPlainNasty]

My biggest concern is why do they come out flat in a game like today. I still have no problem with the loss to New Orleans and taking calculated chances. I die inside when they lose to teams like Oakland, Tampa Bay etc.

They were already embarassingly flat today before the pick was thrown and remained there throughout pretty much. 

[warfelg]

Just now, JustPlainNasty said:

Tomlins the head coach. When you are the CEO of a company you dont blame it on an employee. You put that employee in place to represent you. If you cant handle it the way you want it represented than somebody should be in place that can. Again Im not hating on Tomlin, this is just the reality of business. Its not "fair" or whatever. Its his job, he's culpable for everything unless the order to do something comes from above. 

Nope.  I'm sorry.  Normal work place analogies don't work like that with coaching structure.  It's not Tomlin's job to micro manage both coordinators to the degree that he's doing it all for them.  They need to come to an agreement on what it is.

So like I added in the edit:

Is the coordinators/front office just a bunch of yes men?

OR

Is Tomlin micromanaging everyone, controlling all of it, and a horrible guy to work for?

Because if you want to put 100% of this blame on Tomlin, that means no one else has a say in what goes on in game planning.

[JustPlainNasty]

5 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Nope.  I'm sorry.  Normal work place analogies don't work like that with coaching structure.  It's not Tomlin's job to micro manage both coordinators to the degree that he's doing it all for them.  They need to come to an agreement on what it is.

So like I added in the edit:

Is the coordinators/front office just a bunch of yes men?

OR

Is Tomlin micromanaging everyone, controlling all of it, and a horrible guy to work for?

Because if you want to put 100% of this blame on Tomlin, that means no one else has a say in what goes on in game planning.

We definitely disagree on this wholeheartedly. 

Unless something has changed everyone else is held to this standard. He hires the coaches and coordinators.

There are times when they are asked to make changes or they will lose their jobs but he hires who he chooses primarily.

 

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

My biggest concern is why do they come out flat in a game like today. I still have no problem with the loss to New Orleans and taking calculated chances. I die inside when they lose to teams like Oakland, Tampa Bay etc.

Some of it is coaching, some's on the players, it's more on the leadership of the team (coaches & captains) than it is on anyone else.

 

Look at Drew Brees.  Best team in the league or worst team in the league, that entire team circles him before a game.  He gets them hyped.  They go through the pre game chant.  They talk about every game like it's the hardest game ever.  As much as I hate him, look at Belichick.  Everything is about the next game.  We got one game, they are the most important game, and it's a must win game.  Brady takes that to heart and takes it to leading the team.

 

Look at our team.  Cam Heyward, supposed leader of the defense, only talking to Tuitt pre game.  They rely on a nearly paralyzed Shazier to hype up the defense.  

The offense is Brown and Juju hyping each other.  No one pulls them in.  No one gets them together.  

The offense and defense act like two separate entities.  Not one team.

 

And sorry, but I put a big part of it on Ben.  He looks disinterested against bad teams.

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

We definitely disagree on this wholeheartedly. 

Unless something has changed everyone else is held to this standard. He hires the coaches and coordinators.

So Tomlin should dictate and micromanage every decision made by every coach?  Yikes.

 

Might as well fire Tomlin and leave all the other coaches in place then.  And then hold the next coach to the same standard.

[JustPlainNasty]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

Some of it is coaching, some's on the players, it's more on the leadership of the team (coaches & captains) than it is on anyone else.

 

Look at Drew Brees.  Best team in the league or worst team in the league, that entire team circles him before a game.  He gets them hyped.  They go through the pre game chant.  They talk about every game like it's the hardest game ever.  As much as I hate him, look at Belichick.  Everything is about the next game.  We got one game, they are the most important game, and it's a must win game.  Brady takes that to heart and takes it to leading the team.

 

Look at our team.  Cam Heyward, supposed leader of the defense, only talking to Tuitt pre game.  They rely on a nearly paralyzed Shazier to hype up the defense.  

The offense is Brown and Juju hyping each other.  No one pulls them in.  No one gets them together.  

The offense and defense act like two separate entities.  Not one team.

 

And sorry, but I put a big part of it on Ben.  He looks disinterested against bad teams.

That attitude usually starts at the top. (Not the Rooneys) . If Mike cant coach Ben than you are admitting to the problem. Sorry to say.