tomlin lovers

[JustPlainNasty]

That was a lame response. Your team/company has a direction , it gets that direction from the top. This is what I want, make it happen. There is no micromanaging thats managing. Putting the right people in place to execute the plan the way you want. If they dont do it in a satisfactory way, you retrain them, if they dont get it you replace them. 

 

[warfelg]

Just now, JustPlainNasty said:

That attitude usually starts at the top. (Not the Rooneys) . If Mike cant coach Ben than you are admitting to the problem. Sorry to say.

No.  Just stop. This is absurd.  Ben's a grown man.  Shouldn't need Tomlin telling him to get up to rip a team a new one.  

 

This is becoming a joke how much is getting blamed on Tomlin.

My new MacBook Air doesn't work perfectly.  I guess it's Tim Cook's fault right?  My new Tesla had to get an update.  That's Elon Musk's fault right?

Because the way people are talking that's the way the world works.  Its not the fault of the people who put my computer together.  It's not the fault of the computer that the trackpad wire came lose.  It's not the programmers fault that there was a glitch that didn't make the auto lock work.  It's not the dealers fault that they forgot to update the software before delivering the car.  It's on the CEO's of the company right?

[JustPlainNasty]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

No.  Just stop. This is absurd.  Ben's a grown man.  Shouldn't need Tomlin telling him to get up to rip a team a new one.  

 

This is becoming a joke how much is getting blamed on Tomlin.

My new MacBook Air doesn't work perfectly.  I guess it's Tim Cook's fault right?  My new Tesla had to get an update.  That's Elon Musk's fault right?

Because the way people are talking that's the way the world works.  Its not the fault of the people who put my computer together.  It's not the fault of the computer that the trackpad wire came lose.  It's not the programmers fault that there was a glitch that didn't make the auto lock work.  It's not the dealers fault that they forgot to update the software before delivering the car.  It's on the CEO's of the company right?

Yeah youre right. I dont judge Joe Smith when my Macbook doesnt work right. I judge Apple, I dont buy their product next time. I dont buy their stock because I see the lack of quality in their product and how they are managed,

 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JustPlainNasty said:

That was a lame response. Your team/company has a direction , it gets that direction from the top. This is what I want, make it happen. There is no micromanaging thats managing. Putting the right people in place to execute the plan the way you want. If they dont do it in a satisfactory way, you retrain them, if they dont get it you replace them. 

 

That's not the way coaching works, especially in football.

 

Let me break this down for you:

Advance scouts and Quality control coaches watch tape for the next opponent, say the Bengals.  They notice, hey they run this defense 35% of the time, and 80% of the time they run these coverages.  They are down these players, and the players remaining are suspect to these moves.

That goes to the OC, who takes that and develops what the game plan is.  The Bengals secondary was very suspect to the pass.  That's the information that Fitchner got.  So he develops a plan that lets them attack those weak spots through the passing game.

He takes that to Tomlin, says here's their weak spots, here's how we're going to attack it.  Is there anything you would like to see included, would you like a different balance.

Tomlin signs off.

 

Prepping for games, and game planning is not Tomlin sitting alone in some dark room plotting all of it and going to Fitchners office and saying "Hey throw that ball 70% of the time".

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Yeah youre right. I dont judge Joe Smith when my Macbook doesnt work right. I judge Apple, I dont buy their product next time. I dont buy their stock because I see the lack of quality in their product and how they are managed,

 

No, you just said blame the CEO.  Now it's the entire organization/company.

So when the Steelers underachieve we should judge the Steelers as a whole and not just the top right?

EDIT:

If something works 99/100 times (like MacBooks) and 1 lemon comes through it it doesn't mean they are mismanaged.  It means 1 employee missed something.  it doesn't mean the company is bad top to bottom.

[JustPlainNasty]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

That's not the way coaching works, especially in football.

 

Let me break this down for you:

Advance scouts and Quality control coaches watch tape for the next opponent, say the Bengals.  They notice, hey they run this defense 35% of the time, and 80% of the time they run these coverages.  They are down these players, and the players remaining are suspect to these moves.

That goes to the OC, who takes that and develops what the game plan is.  The Bengals secondary was very suspect to the pass.  That's the information that Fitchner got.  So he develops a plan that lets them attack those weak spots through the passing game.

He takes that to Tomlin, says here's their weak spots, here's how we're going to attack it.  Is there anything you would like to see included, would you like a different balance.

Tomlin signs off.

 

Prepping for games, and game planning is not Tomlin sitting alone in some dark room plotting all of it and going to Fitchners office and saying "Hey throw that ball 70% of the time".

You're oversimplifying what Ive said. 

The only business that operates like you want as far as culpability is the feel good business.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JustPlainNasty said:

You're oversimplifying what Ive said. 

The only business that operates like you want as far as culpability is the feel good business.

LOL I'm not oversimplifying.  I just told you exactly how football teams work, and because it doesn't fit the assessment that Tomlin 100% controls everything, you don't like it.

[JustPlainNasty]

When business underperform, the business is reflected upon poorly. The stock devalues and someone is accountable. The guy that is in charge of making the company run, the CEO (the head coach).

[VigilantZombie]

57 minutes ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Tomlin does need to answer for games like today and his 18-12 record vs teams under .500 ..For a team of this quality that record should be more like 22-8 or 26-4. Tomlin basically says that the results are due to turnover ratio and kicking game, however are you saying that you are not responsible for managing out of those situations? 

"Such is life" ...Life does not always go as planned. We are not only judged by when things go right, but how we respond to when things go wrong and the unexpected.

Today may have been one of the saddest statements for Tomlins teams other than the regular losses to Oakland, and any team past the Rocky Mountains really.

The post-game press conferences are pretty much the way of life in the NFL but this season they have particularly annoyed me when it comes to Tomlin. I agree he needs to answer for the things that I feel he could have done a better job to control. I don't know that I would necessarily fire him but if he did get fired I'm not sure I would be that upset either. They have already stated that he will not be fired. Having said that any argument he may make to keep Keith Butler Danny Smith and Joey Porter should be ignored. Jerry orloski can pretty much go to I don't see anything that him or Porter has added to this team.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JustPlainNasty said:

When business underperform, the business is reflected upon poorly. The stock devalues and someone is accountable. The guy that is in charge of making the company run, the CEO (the head coach).

So start with the true head....Kevin Colbert.

[VigilantZombie]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

So start with the true head....Kevin Colbert.

That's where I'm coming from. Get rid of Kevin Colbert get rid of Danny Smith Keith Butler Joey Porter and Jerry orlovsky. Replace them with people that Tomlin and whoever the new GM feel is best suited for this team I would definitely stick with a 3-4 defensive coach. And then if Tomlin cannot turn things around as the head coach after what would hopefully be a better draft and a decent free agency then you fire everybody except for whoever you newly-appointed the general manager.

Having said that this is why I do not think Kevin Colbert will be fired. I believe that changes will definitely be made such as Keith Butler and Danny Smith but I also believe that the seat Mike Tomlin is sitting upon he's going to be red hot and if we fail to make the playoffs again next season Kevin Colbert and everybody Underneath Him will be fired

[warfelg]

And I'm sorry but you just cannot apply real world philosophy to sports teams.  You can't.  It just doesn't work in the way, and you don't answer that Tomlin is either not letting his DC/OC make any calls or he's micromanaging everything because you KNOW that's not the way a football team is run.  Tomlin has 20 coaches and 58 players to worry about.  He can't be in the weeds on every little detail breaking it down and doing everything for both sides of the ball.  That's the reason you have an offensive and defensive coordinator.  To do that for you and to help run the game for you.  And if they are giving you bad information, or they assess the game wrong, and Tomlin trusts them, what else is he to do?

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

That's where I'm coming from. Get rid of Kevin Colbert get rid of Danny Smith Keith Butler Joey Porter and Jerry orlovsky. Replace them with people that Tomlin and whoever the new GM feel is best suited for this team I would definitely stick with a 3-4 defensive coach. And then if Tomlin cannot turn things around as the head coach after what would hopefully be a better draft and a decent free agency then you fire everybody except for whoever you newly-appointed the general manager.

Having said that this is why I do not think Kevin Colbert will be fired. I believe that changes will definitely be made such as Keith Butler and Danny Smith but I also believe that the seat Mike Tomlin is sitting upon he's going to be red hot and if we fail to make the playoffs again next season Kevin Colbert and everybody Underneath Him will be fired

I will ad one thing to that; don't bring in someone that Tomlin likes.  Replace him with someone good, and let that guy make the call on if Tomlin stays.  

Colbert obviously doesn't hold this team to a higher standard.  He doesn't assert himself enough in certain aspects.  Like the Kicker thing.  That's on Colbert too.  Once you lost one game because of kicking, he should have brought in kickers to try out, sat there with Tomlin, and said "We need to do something about this".  Instead by not forcing Tomlin's hand on it til week 15 means that Colbert felt comfortable with it as well!  So if someone doesn't want to put any pressure on Colbert because of things like that, then you got to believe that Colbert is just a yes man for Tomlin.

[JustPlainNasty]

Just now, warfelg said:

So start with the true head....Kevin Colbert.

Attaining talent is Colbert's job not game planning or calling the plays or managing situations. Perhaps you missed that in your account of how a team runs. By most every account, the team "has the talent" and that is why they are questioned. 

I also didn't say that he shouldn't be questioned, but his track record is much greater than Tomlins with history of success before Tomlin. Colbert should be questioned for last years draft easily and several picks over the last few years. Chances are high that when Ben retires , both Tomlin and Colbert are "retired".

 

[warfelg]

Just now, JustPlainNasty said:

Attaining talent is Colbert's job not game planning or calling the plays or managing situations. Perhaps you missed that in your account of how a team runs. By most every account, the team "has the talent" and that is why they are questioned. 

I also didn't say that he shouldn't be questioned, but his track record is much greater than Tomlins with history of success before Tomlin. Colbert should be questioned for last years draft easily and several picks over the last few years. Chances are high that when Ben retires , both Tomlin and Colbert are "retired".

 

Well he's been doing bad in attaining talent since ~2009, so if you are given subpar players, what type of performance do you expect.

This looks to be now 4 drafts in 8 years that no players will see a second contract with us.  But keep blaming Tomlin because he's above Colbert.