paul-mac Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm not at all surprised to see Adam Gase fall on his face in Miami and get fired today. Just another example in a long ling of hot coordinator who rode coattails of a HOF QB and then can't replicate that success elsewhere. Throw in his McDaniels-like abrasive personality, pettiness and childishness and it's no surprise to see him canned. Miami is one step closer to a Super Bowl today. Gase is a total fraud and I’m completely unsurprised he was a joke of a HC. He got a completely unwarranted promotion from WR coach to QB coach when John Fox wanted to bring his buddy Tyke Tolbert over from Carolina and the FO were too cheap to fire Gase and then another unwarranted promotion to OC when Mike McCoy got the Chargers job and we needed a glorified water boy to be Peyton Manning’s yes man in the OC role. Then somehow he took the credit for Manning’s record breaking year and got hired by Miami off it. He was always going to get found out at some point. Can you imagine the train wreck we would be in if we had hired him over Gary Kubiak in 2015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm not at all surprised to see Adam Gase fall on his face in Miami and get fired today. Just another example in a long ling of hot coordinator who rode coattails of a HOF QB and then can't replicate that success elsewhere. Throw in his McDaniels-like abrasive personality, pettiness and childishness and it's no surprise to see him canned. Miami is one step closer to a Super Bowl today. LOL completely disagree with you. And then some. I know you don't like Gase because he was young (like McDaniels), but that was the same reason you didn't like McVay. He worked out well. Gase was saddled with an equally horrendous ownership/management situation as Denver has been. Tannehill has been routinely injured, but the one year he wasn't, Gase led Miami to the playoffs and a 10-6 record. Do I think he had a stellar run in Miami? Not really, but he's shown an ability to get a lot out of his QBs- much more than anyone here has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I just hope they really do their homework this time, go in with an open mind, interview the candidates multiple times, make a sound decision. The last two coaching hires felt like forgone conclusions with Kubiak and Vance. I remember before Kubiak was hired there were a few candidates who just simply refused interviews as it was an open secret the job was going to go to Gary. In Woody Paige's big story on Elway/Ellis falling out, he reported that the team had their hearts set on Vance before they started interviews but that Kyle tuned in such a strong performance it gave Elway a moment of pause and he seriously considered going that route before coming back to Vance. Totally agree man. That's why I had an issue with the leak that Elway just wanted to bring in his boy Mike last offseason. Elway has A LOT to prove this offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, champ11 said: Totally agree man. That's why I had an issue with the leak that Elway just wanted to bring in his boy Mike last offseason. Elway has A LOT to prove this offseason Given the history - the last thing you could accuse Shanahan of is being Elway's 'boy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, broncos67 said: LOL completely disagree with you. And then some. I know you don't like Gase because he was young (like McDaniels), but that was the same reason you didn't like McVay. He worked out well. Gase was saddled with an equally horrendous ownership/management situation as Denver has been. Tannehill has been routinely injured, but the one year he wasn't, Gase led Miami to the playoffs and a 10-6 record. Do I think he had a stellar run in Miami? Not really, but he's shown an ability to get a lot out of his QBs- much more than anyone here has. Right, because getting the most out of Peyton Manning is a sure fire sign of a great head coach. Tell me more about how that worked out for Jim Caldwell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, jolly red giant said: Given the history - the last thing you could accuse Shanahan of is being Elway's 'boy'. it was clearly going to be a hire based on personal relationships. the best way to run an organization! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, broncos67 said: LOL completely disagree with you. And then some. I know you don't like Gase because he was young (like McDaniels), but that was the same reason you didn't like McVay. He worked out well. Gase was saddled with an equally horrendous ownership/management situation as Denver has been. Tannehill has been routinely injured, but the one year he wasn't, Gase led Miami to the playoffs and a 10-6 record. Do I think he had a stellar run in Miami? Not really, but he's shown an ability to get a lot out of his QBs- much more than anyone here has. I wouldn't say the ownership situation in Miami is horrendous. Quite the contrary. Stephen Ross is one of the richest people in the U.S. and has invested heavily in that franchise, they have a fully renovated stadium and their facilities are first-rate. They have a stadium naming rights partner. Hall of Famer Don Shula is a Vice-Chairman. The problem is their GM, Mike Tannenbaum, has been a disaster. I think firing Gase is just the first domino to fall down there, I read on SI that if Gase goes it portends wholesale changes and Ross is ready to break the bank on a new front office. Now, Gase might have a few redeeming qualities as a coach but he's just another example of a hot coordinator who fell on his face in his first job. Every team deals with injuries and they ply in the same division as the Patriots but Gase has gotten an awful lot of flack down there and from what I've read it sounds largely justified. The comparison of Gase to Mac doesn't end with their ages or the fact their claim to fame to is a coaching a HOF QB, the both also seem to completely lack people skills and are petty and emotionally immature. The OCs we've had here who got HC jobs thanks to Peyton Manning - Gase and Mike McCoy - have both failed in their subsequent, non-Peyton coaching jobs. That's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, paul-mac said: Right, because getting the most out of Peyton Manning is a sure fire sign of a great head coach. Tell me more about how that worked out for Jim Caldwell? He also had Cutler playing the best ball of his career. Same with Tannehill. If you want to argue Gase was carried to higher positions based on his success with Manning that's fine, but if you ignore that he did create strong offensive systems for two other QBs, you're not painting the full picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, champ11 said: it was clearly going to be a hire based on personal relationships. the best way to run an organization! The Broncos are a mess - and they need stability. That is not going to happen on the business side given the Ellis / trust set-up - but it can happen on the footballing side. Shanahan/Kubiak would bring stability - and would develop the young players, particularly on the offence. Neither have anything to prove and look like they would be willing to accept such a role. Any other HC coming in (particularly a 'hot' coordinator) will be going all out to prove themselves - and that is not what the Broncos need now. I read somewhere today the idea that Shanahan/Kubiak would come in - with someone hired to be groomed as a replacement HC in 2/3 years (with the hope the ownership will be sorted by then) - it is an idea could see potentially working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, jolly red giant said: The Broncos are a mess - and they need stability. That is not going to happen on the business side given the Ellis / trust set-up - but it can happen on the footballing side. Shanahan/Kubiak would bring stability - and would develop the young players, particularly on the offence. Neither have anything to prove and look like they would be willing to accept such a role. Any other HC coming in (particularly a 'hot' coordinator) will be going all out to prove themselves - and that is not what the Broncos need now. I read somewhere today the idea that Shanahan/Kubiak would come in - with someone hired to be groomed as a replacement HC in 2/3 years (with the hope the ownership will be sorted by then) - it is an idea could see potentially working. Hiring Mike Shanahan as the head coach would be the most ridiculous decision and will backfire completely. He hasn't coached in ages, and outside of one fluky season with Griffin, has not had any sort of NFL success since 1998. Denver needs to stop going back to the 90s to find coaches that can coach. There are plenty of them out there. Elway needs to surround himself with innovative football minds rather than yes men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, jolly red giant said: The Broncos are a mess - and they need stability. That is not going to happen on the business side given the Ellis / trust set-up - but it can happen on the footballing side. Shanahan/Kubiak would bring stability - and would develop the young players, particularly on the offence. Neither have anything to prove and look like they would be willing to accept such a role. Any other HC coming in (particularly a 'hot' coordinator) will be going all out to prove themselves - and that is not what the Broncos need now. I read somewhere today the idea that Shanahan/Kubiak would come in - with someone hired to be groomed as a replacement HC in 2/3 years (with the hope the ownership will be sorted by then) - it is an idea could see potentially working. There are few in Broncos Country who hold Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak in as high esteem as I do but even I don't think that is the correct route to go right now. I see two routes the organization can go, the safer, lower-ceiling route and one that is more of a roll of the dice. The former is the route we took in 2011, or John Fox route, which would be to bring in an older coach with decades of experience who could be the "adult in the room," a term I've used frequently. There are a lot that fit this bill, Chuck Pagano, Mike McCarthy, Mike Munchack (who we are interviewing), Jim Schwartz, etc. This would be a good move as the HC could be a stabilizing force and help restore the team to a level of respectability. Again, this would be exactly what we got when we hired John Fox and I think that that move at that time was one of the best moves Elway has made in his 8 years here. The other route would be to roll the dice on a hot coordinator or even a college coach (one not named Jim Harbaugh, David Shaw or Chris Perersen, they fit in the former category) but in so doing make a long-term commitment to him. With this, we would have to make sure the fan base understands there likely will be bumps along the road but barring a major scandal of some sort the coach will be here for several (4+) years, regardless of record. Even though I don't like hiring the hot coordinator, if we went with someone who checks multiple boxes (like Matt LaFleur, whom I really like), I could get on board with it. The problem here is I don't know if Joe Ellis will get on board with it. As I've said multiple times, the problems with this franchise on the business side (thanks, Joe Ellis) are adversely affecting Elway's ability to do his job on the football side; we need to win as much as possible and return to relevancy (or more) as soon as possibly so as to make selling stadium naming rights more appealing. Now, on your last point, if a Mike/Gary pairing with Matt LaFleur as the HC-in-waiting was the plan, I would support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, broncos67 said: Hiring Mike Shanahan as the head coach would be the most ridiculous decision and will backfire completely. He hasn't coached in ages, and outside of one fluky season with Griffin, has not had any sort of NFL success since 1998. Denver needs to stop going back to the 90s to find coaches that can coach. There are plenty of them out there. Elway needs to surround himself with innovative football minds rather than yes men. I agree that it is time to turn the page but Mike Shanahan would not be an Elway yes-man. If anything those two egos wouldn't be able to co-exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 44 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm not at all surprised to see Adam Gase fall on his face in Miami and get fired today. Just another example in a long ling of hot coordinator who rode coattails of a HOF QB and then can't replicate that success elsewhere. Throw in his McDaniels-like abrasive personality, pettiness and childishness and it's no surprise to see him canned. Miami is one step closer to a Super Bowl today. 24 minutes ago, broncos67 said: He also had Cutler playing the best ball of his career. Same with Tannehill. If you want to argue Gase was carried to higher positions based on his success with Manning that's fine, but if you ignore that he did create strong offensive systems for two other QBs, you're not painting the full picture. To be fair, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. On the plus side, Gase was saddled with one of the worst GM's in the game in Tannenbaum. Tannenbaum's cap mismanagement and penchant to throw cap $ and picks to get aging vets who weren't difference makers was the biggest reason why MIA never has progressed post-Marino. His reassignment is the most important step MIA could take to succeed, far more than firing Gase (Ross & Tannenbaum are close, so he's getting reassigned instead of outright being fired). And we should not ignore the fact that Gase got a career-best year from freaking Jay Cutler, years after ppl wrote him off, and right after Gase left, Cutler went back to his awful ways. And pre-ACL x2, he did the same for Tanny, that 10-6 year. Frankly, the decision to skip the ACL surgery in December and then losing him in preseason with no replacements was the death knell in 2017. Now, it's not like Gase is the cure-all. In particular, it's not like he paid any attention to the D on his own, and he certainly made curious personnel decisions (not playing Kenyan Drake more, as their most explosive player, just one example, but there were several). And let's face it, we need more than a HC/QB to return to legitimate contention (just without those upgrades, we aren't going anywhere either). So it's not like he's this can't miss guy. And I certainly don't think he was ready to take over for our contending team in 2015, no argument here. But I suspect Gase will get another shot soon, and he'll probably do OK...and far better than some of the 8 new hires. I mean, TBH, if Elway and he didn't have a feud, we could do far worse - he's the kind of guy we need to overhaul our O and prop up the Keenum-corpse until we find a real QBOTF. Revamping an O and making a meh QB serviceable is kind of his thing. Anyone who can make Cutler be decent has to be taken seriously, and given he did it with a healthy pre-ACLx2 Tanny, it's hard to believe it's just a fluke. Either way, though, it's moot. Not happening as long as Elway's around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 I feel like I should take a moment and remind everyone, that as bleak as things look, it could be worse. We could be CIN fans. Man, if that happens....feel bad for CIN fans. At least we've had SB's and actual playoff success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 BTW while only partly related - if ppl were wondering if there was more than DEN to the story of Kubiak returning to the sidelines as an OC...first solid link to another team. ATL would be a dream landing spot for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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