Vance Joseph Fired as Broncos HC

[AKRNA]

58 minutes ago, BroncoinGermany said:

Happy (early) New Year from across the pond! 

HC:

1) Harbaugh

2) Pagano

3) Toub

The CEO-type Vance should have been. 

OC: Kubiak 

Best to keep the offensive system relatively stable and maximize our very unstable bridge QB Keenum into 2020. 

DC: Bowles

Wet dreams in the making. Quiet authority and coordination-wise last known for an aggressive 3-4 during his days with BA in AZ.

 

 

Welcome back BiG.

[Scoundrel]

Maybe I’ll have a dream about who the next coach will be tonight and I can just help everyone skip the speculation.

[thebestever6]

Did not like elways body language in that presser he was moving side to side especially early on in it. Also he was dodging a lot of questions that I thought were good questions. 

And I wanted to barf when he was supporting Keenum 

[broncos67]

9 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Did not like elways body language in that presser he was moving side to side especially early on in it. Also he was dodging a lot of questions that I thought were good questions. 

And I wanted to barf when he was supporting Keenum 

I didn't watch, only read quotes on Twitter, but I wouldn't read too much into body language or Keenum. By all accounts, his support of Keenum was lukewarm at best. And what else can you expect him to say? There's no viable QB on the roster besides him.

[jsthomp2007]

37 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I didn't watch, only read quotes on Twitter, but I wouldn't read too much into body language or Keenum. By all accounts, his support of Keenum was lukewarm at best. And what else can you expect him to say? There's no viable QB on the roster besides him.

What??? We have Kevin Hogan dude!!!  Come on!! Geeze. 

[Broncofan]

So McDaniels & Gase are interviewing for GB & ARI tomorrow.    Neither one is a candidate for us, and for obvious reasons - but if DEN is going to get a good HC pool to choose from, we'd certainly benefit from both guys getting 2 of the 8 jobs - only increases the pool of available candidates who would consider us.     

If Elway really wants to think about overhauling the O and eventually developing the next QBOTF (whether it's now or 2020, the next HC/OC is going to be the combo in charge), then some of the best available candidates with NFL experience who are much newer to fans  would be:

1. Freddie Kitchens, CLE OC - frankly CLE is nuts to be thinking about parting ways with him.   Replacing Hue / Todd Haley with him at the O controls transformed that O (remember Baker Mayfield was already in there for 4+ games before Kitchens took over.   And there were no major personnel changes, so everything that happened in CLE's O in the 2H was all on replacing Hue with Kitchens.   Crazy stat below....

And none of that covers the change in Mayfield's output, or the O's output since Hue was replaced.   Again, no real personnel changes, just replacing Hue with Freddie.   Anyone who says Hue wasn't bad just isn't paying attention - he was literally a -3 to -4 WAR coach IMO (he cost his team games).   Kitchens, though, is a major emerging O mind.    CLE is interviewing him to be HC - frankly, while I get there's risk in getting OC's with no HC experience, I get why the league's so interested.    His performance is truly McVay-esque level.  The only real Q is the sample size, but the effect is so massive, it's not hard be impressed.

 

2.  Todd Monken, TAM OC - not quite as much of an impact as Kitchens, but same idea in TAM - that O was actually incredibly productive - and that's despite the fact they had major TO-prone games 2x from Winston and 3x from Fitzmagic.   And more importantly, Koetter actually took away the game-calling duties for the WAS & NYG games - when they were at their worst.    Koetter was the supposed O mind for the last 4 years - but Monken taking over the O and calling plays for much of the 1H is what led to TAM's great O production.   Now, again, he only has 1 year of production - but frankly, TAM is kinda nuts if they let Monken go - except it's not their call, because his contract expired.   TAM is interviewing him to be HC, so it shows how much they've thought of his performance.    I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay as HC, or at worst, be a richly paid OC with a D-minded HC in TB.   But if he is open to going to the open market, we should kick the tires.  The problem is if he goes on the market as an OC, like Kitchens, he would command top $ - and that's a real Q with Ellis, who's notoriously cheap in this regard. 

3.  Matt Lafleur, TEN OC - been covered before, but it bears repeating that his experience with both Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay are big drawing cards.  I will say his time in TEN wasn't elite, and it does worry me that TEN didn't identify that Derrick Henry was the foundation to use until the JAX game.   But, their OL was ravaged with injury, and they had to use Blaine Gabbert for 4-5 games and a hurt Mariota (who's really underwhelmed other than his rookie year, which wasn't record setting, but hinted at far greater things than what we've seen).

4.  Zac Taylor, LA QBC - obviously, anyone near McVay is going to get a long look now.   The Q is obviously how much do they bring that they've learned, and how much they were along for the ride behind McVay's incredible mind (McVay can actually recall and recite play calls from 3-4 years prior, exact game - he's done that 2-3x in live interviews on radio, not just on TV.  Just amazing photographic memory paired with genius intellect and adaptability.  Wow).   

5.  Eric Bienemy, KC OC - this is one guy who I'm not as sure about, but we'll hear about him.  The draw of course is that he comes from the Andy Reid tree, which has had phenomenal success.  The only issue I have is that in prior years, Matt Nagy was really the #2 behind Reid, and the QBC/2nd in command, Biememy was the RB coach and really far behind in the pecking order.  Bienemy has 1 year as OC, and what a year - but really, it's the Mahomes show.   I don't know how Bienemy's abilities translate into the equation.  I will say that his preparation and background training coming from the Reid tree will be huge pluses.

Obviously there's risk in taking the hot-OC route (as we’ve seen many great OC/DC make terrible HC and sometimes regress on O development as you give them more responsibility), but instead of debating that alone, thought it might help to know the field better outside of the usual guys like McCarthy etc.  

I will say Kitchens & Monken's performances are so good, I don't even think we'll sniff them.  They likely pick destinations that are seen as preferable to us.  And certainly not if they are only hired as top OC - because they'll command super-rich OC $$ as the top guys and we all know Ellis is never signing off on that.   I think it's far more likely the only OC's we'll be able to even get interviews or consider for HC or OC upgrades are the Lafleur-Taylor-Bienemy range (and only Taylor could be interviewed without being blocked for OC alone).   Doesn't mean there's no risk, so again I'm not saying we should hire them - but if we're considering overhauling the O, and getting guys to do that, IMO these are the top guys available this year (I've taken Gase & McDaniels off, and I think many know McCarthy's strengths and his weaknesses).

[jsthomp2007]

LaFours makes the most sense. 

[thebestever6]

I never heard of search agencies help teams fond a coach until this year.  Has that always been a thing? Why wouldn't we use that resource every bit helps. Is it because ellis doesn't want to spend money?

[thebestever6]

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I didn't watch, only read quotes on Twitter, but I wouldn't read too much into body language or Keenum. By all accounts, his support of Keenum was lukewarm at best. And what else can you expect him to say? There's no viable QB on the roster besides him.

I don't know if he was rocking back and forth was during a Keenum question it happened I have to rewatch the presser. But I'm telling you the presser was alarming it was the first time watching elway talk where I could tell he waa completely uneasy.

[Cutler06]

Does Adam Gase get a shot at OC ?

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

Does Adam Gase get a shot at OC ?

He’s getting several HC calls for interviews already (ARI already confirmed).

For DEN the bad blood is still there between both him and Elway - Elway already said no to Gase & Shanahan.  But in Gase’s case he didn’t even say “not at this time” - just flat out “no” lol. 

[jolly red giant]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

So McDaniels & Gase are interviewing for GB & ARI tomorrow.    Neither one is a candidate for us, and for obvious reasons - but if DEN is going to get a good HC pool to choose from, we'd certainly benefit from both guys getting 2 of the 8 jobs - only increases the pool of available candidates who would consider us.     

McDaniels could end up in Green Bay - thinking he has Rodgers to help him (then again he rejected Luck last year).

As for increasing the pool of candidates - irrespective of how big it is - it is not that inspiring.

[AnAngryAmerican]

11 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

McDaniels could end up in Green Bay - thinking he has Rodgers to help him (then again he rejected Luck last year).

As for increasing the pool of candidates - irrespective of how big it is - it is not that inspiring.

Aaron Rodgers has something of a prickly personality, I'm not sure he and Mac are really a great fit. Plus, Rodgers has an absolute cannon for an arm and plus-athleticism, I don't think standing in the pocket like a stature and throwing six-yard crossing routes and shallow hooks are the best use of his talents. 

I am a little troubled that, after a rush yesterday, no more word has leaked out about additional interviews. I mean Flores, Fangio, Pagano, Munchak and Taylor are far from an appealing lot of candidates. Also, since we haven't heard anything yet and we should have, it doesn't appear as if LaFleur is going to be a candidate. Pretty much feels now like it's going to be some veteran with a defensive background paired with Kubiak.  I guess that's solid but by no means spectacular; hopefully Kubiak has evolved and expanded his playbook, I don't think running a 1995 offense in 2019 is a recipe for success. 

[DiehardBronxFan]

13 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Aaron Rodgers has something of a prickly personality, I'm not sure he and Mac are really a great fit. Plus, Rodgers has an absolute cannon for an arm and plus-athleticism, I don't think standing in the pocket like a stature and throwing six-yard crossing routes and shallow hooks are the best use of his talents. 

I am a little troubled that, after a rush yesterday, no more word has leaked out about additional interviews. I mean Flores, Fangio, Pagano, Munchak and Taylor are far from an appealing lot of candidates. Also, since we haven't heard anything yet and we should have, it doesn't appear as if LaFleur is going to be a candidate. Pretty much feels now like it's going to be some veteran with a defensive background paired with Kubiak.  I guess that's solid but by no means spectacular; hopefully Kubiak has evolved and expanded his playbook, I don't think running a 1995 offense in 2019 is a recipe for success. 

Unfortunately, we’ve known since the buginning there is no “spectacular”out there this year.  I know there is a lot of talk about LaFleur, but other than his history with Shanahan/Kubiak, I don’t see much there that is any more exciting than the other “meh” options.  Munhak does nothing for me.  With Fangio, at least it would be interesting to see what he could get out of this D.  Flores sounds like an interesting story - but I’m so down on Bellichek asst,s due to such a poor track record. 

But, man, we need some new thinking on the offensive side so bad.  And I love Kubs, but I just don’t see him bringing the creativity we need to compete in this era. 

[jolly red giant]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I am a little troubled that, after a rush yesterday, no more word has leaked out about additional interviews. I mean Flores, Fangio, Pagano, Munchak and Taylor are far from an appealing lot of candidates. Also, since we haven't heard anything yet and we should have, it doesn't appear as if LaFleur is going to be a candidate. Pretty much feels now like it's going to be some veteran with a defensive background paired with Kubiak.  I guess that's solid but by no means spectacular; hopefully Kubiak has evolved and expanded his playbook, I don't think running a 1995 offense in 2019 is a recipe for success. 

Saw something on Broncos TV today saying that they were only interviewing 4/5 candidates - still have a sneeky feeling Elway will go to Ellis and say 'they are all sh*te and we need Mike Shanahan. The only other obvious one for me is Pagano.

As for Kubiak - I have consistently suggested that he is under-rated. I think he is innovative - he succeeded in winning a SB with Manning who couldn't through the ball - in Baltimore Kubiak made Flacco look outstanding - and in Houston made Schaub look like a perennial pro-bowler. I will take him any day over what we have had for the past two years.