2019 Steelers offseason news

[VigilantZombie]

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Good point @wwhickok about the injury history. That is something that needs to be kept in mind, even if he does “break out” this year. If he’s fully healthy I think he could have a lot more sacks. But does the FO want to risk a long term dea with his long injury history. Sometimes people as freakish as Bud can’t stay healthy. I mean, look what happened to Woodley. Nagging injuries ruined him. I know it’s a completely different scenario to Bud, but it happens. 

I have been The Devil's Advocate with Bud Dupree. However I do think that if he can play a full 16-game season and he can get some quality sacks because let's be honest not every sack  no matter who you are is going to be a Quality sack. But if he can get some let's say five of them that are good quality sacks. And if he can get a combined total of maybe 9 sacks to me that would be a significant Leap Forward and depending what else he did like did he Force some fumbles did he get a lot of tackles and pressures? And that point I might find myself willing to give him a new contract if he can show that his struggles with injury are behind him and part of the culprit of his lack of success I would be willing to get behind him on a new contract. Let me be clear though that is not my expectation.

[MOSteelers56]

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I have been The Devil's Advocate with Bud Dupree. However I do think that if he can play a full 16-game season and he can get some quality sacks because let's be honest not every sack  no matter who you are is going to be a Quality sack. But if he can get some let's say five of them that are good quality sacks. And if he can get a combined total of maybe 9 sacks to me that would be a significant Leap Forward and depending what else he did like did he Force some fumbles did he get a lot of tackles and pressures? And that point I might find myself willing to give him a new contract if he can show that his struggles with injury are behind him and part of the culprit of his lack of success I would be willing to get behind him on a new contract. Let me be clear though that is not my expectation.

I pretty much feel the same way. I'm more optimistic that he does it, though. I'm always optimistic about the Steelers so take that with a grain of salt.

[VigilantZombie]

47 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I pretty much feel the same way. I'm more optimistic that he does it, though. I'm always optimistic about the Steelers so take that with a grain of salt.

As far as the Steelers as an entire team a concerned I'm probably way more optimistic than I should be I mean to the tune that I believe that we are going to be the first team to Seven Super Bowl victories. And I also believe that we are going to start the season off 1-0

[Dcash4]

3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

What's everyone's take on signing Haden to an extension? This is his last year and he recently stated he wanted to retire a Steeler. I'd be ok with giving him two years after this one. I'd rather just give him 1, because I think Layne could be the real deal, but I don't think he'd sign a 1 year extension. Maybe two years with an easy out going into that last year. I would assume he'd be getting paid a little too much for only veteran leadership. 

I’m for a Haden extension...at the right price. I think best case he sticks around, Layne works out and starts tear 2 outside with Nelson kicking inside. 

His best days are behind him but I think he still plays really good football. I think he would be best suited moving forward as the number 2...but beggars can’t be choosers. 

[VigilantZombie]

If we can get Hayden back for about 12 million a year I'm good with it. It's about top 10 I think four corners but it's not top five I don't believe.

[43M]

On 6/11/2019 at 2:16 PM, jebrick said:

Having watched Buds 2018 sacks I call BS.  2 up  the middle on stunts.  One of which he ran over a RB.  Another was a loop inside that the OG fanned on.  All other he beat the OT.  We can go back to look at his other years.

I have long since not worried about a scheme sack.  Gildon had so many of those we called this Gil-dong sacks and he is 2nd on the all time Steeler sack list.  Buds biggest problem is he wins with speed or nothing.  One sack was because he stopped and the QB flushed into him.

You call BS, yet really prove nothing wrong. 

2 on blitzes up the middle...who did he beat?  Was it a scheme sack or did he win with talent? 

1 on a RB and 1 whiff by an OG...impressive?

All others were beating OTs?  Well, he only had 5.5 sacks...so all other...1.5 sacks?

No one is making anything up.  I would love for Dupree to shove crow down my throat.  Unfortunately, a first round pick who is nothing more than JAG doesnt really impress me.   Steeler fans reacted the same way towards my disdain for Jason Worilds.   Worilds was never worth a big contract and neither is Dupree.   I wouldnt mind keeping him as a backup or sub package player....but several years averaging what he is making this year?   That's just...wow.

Fans complain about our defense constantly, yet are seemingly content giving laughably mediocre players like Dupree and Sean Davis long term deals.  Doesnt make much sense IMO.

 

 

[VigilantZombie]

6 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

You call BS, yet really prove nothing wrong. 

2 on blitzes up the middle...who did he beat?  Was it a scheme sack or did he win with talent? 

1 on a RB and 1 whiff by an OG...impressive?

All others were beating OTs?  Well, he only had 5.5 sacks...so all other...1.5 sacks?

No one is making anything up.  I would love for Dupree to shove crow down my throat.  Unfortunately, a first round pick who is nothing more than JAG doesnt really impress me.   Steeler fans reacted the same way towards my disdain for Jason Worilds.   Worilds was never worth a big contract and neither is Dupree.   I wouldnt mind keeping him as a backup or sub package player....but several years averaging what he is making this year?   That's just...wow.

Fans complain about our defense constantly, yet are seemingly content giving laughably mediocre players like Dupree and Sean Davis long term deals.  Doesnt make much sense IMO.

 

 

The sad part is Jason Worilds was a better player than Bud Dupree is and I didn't think Jason world's was worth that contract either. Sean Davis I'm kind of on the fence about it really depends on how he does this season if he takes a Leap Forward at free safety which is where I believe he will in vac play maybe he deserves a contract but not a huge one. And frankly if that's what he wants a major payday I'm not in favor of re-signing him to a contract

[43M]

11 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

The sad part is Jason Worilds was a better player than Bud Dupree is and I didn't think Jason world's was worth that contract either. Sean Davis I'm kind of on the fence about it really depends on how he does this season if he takes a Leap Forward at free safety which is where I believe he will in vac play maybe he deserves a contract but not a huge one. And frankly if that's what he wants a major payday I'm not in favor of re-signing him to a contract

I will gladly eat crow if either of them can notably improve.   Bud has stagnated in mediocrity for 4 years.  Davis was better in 2018, but he was the worst safety in the league in 2017, and I dont trust him...and I dont think our front office does either.  

Neither has shown any form of QUALITY consistency.  Objectively, no one can argue they have.

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I will gladly eat crow if either of them can notably improve.   Bud has stagnated in mediocrity for 4 years.  Davis was better in 2018, but he was the worst safety in the league in 2017, and I dont trust him...and I dont think our front office does either.  

Neither has shown any form of QUALITY consistency.  Objectively, no one can argue they have.

And can we be honest for a minute unless I'm missing something everybody says why didn't they draft a safety in the draft well it wasn't particularly a strong class for a safety

[jebrick]

35 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

You call BS, yet really prove nothing wrong. 

2 on blitzes up the middle...who did he beat?  Was it a scheme sack or did he win with talent? 

1 on a RB and 1 whiff by an OG...impressive?

All others were beating OTs?  Well, he only had 5.5 sacks...so all other...1.5 sacks?

No one is making anything up.  I would love for Dupree to shove crow down my throat.  Unfortunately, a first round pick who is nothing more than JAG doesnt really impress me.   Steeler fans reacted the same way towards my disdain for Jason Worilds.   Worilds was never worth a big contract and neither is Dupree.   I wouldnt mind keeping him as a backup or sub package player....but several years averaging what he is making this year?   That's just...wow.

Fans complain about our defense constantly, yet are seemingly content giving laughably mediocre players like Dupree and Sean Davis long term deals.  Doesnt make much sense IMO.

 

 

You said most of his sacks came vs TE and RB which is BS.  You were wrong and easily provably wrong.  As I said, if you want to argue that he only got 5.5 sacks.  Fine.  If you want to argue that he has no strength to beat OTs.  Fine.  Just don't make up stuff.  You are better than that.

[43M]

3 minutes ago, jebrick said:

You said most of his sacks came vs TE and RB which is BS.  You were wrong and easily provably wrong.  As I said, if you want to argue that he only got 5.5 sacks.  Fine.  If you want to argue that he has no strength to beat OTs.  Fine.  Just don't make up stuff.  You are better than that.

One...I said sacks AND pressures.  

Two...I wasnt just referring to 2018. It embodies his entire career.

Three, I also said blown blocking assignments.  However, I should've also included coverage sacks and blitzes, so that's on me.

My main point is that he rarely gets sacks or pressures through sheer talent. Are you really arguing he does?  He is not even an average pass rusher.  After 4 years, he should be capable of more than running around blockers, and he doesn't even do that very well considering his athletic prowess.   If he even had remotely better hip flexibility and hand usage, he could be a 12+ sack per year player....but he doesnt, and nothing he has shown convinces me he ever will. Dude has zero technique....he thinks he can just outrun everyone.

 

[VigilantZombie]

Listen here's the thing and I mean this with all the respect in the world. For anybody who continues to say did Bud Dupree should have gotten the 5th year option you sound like a fool. Did he get that option because he was their only option at outside linebacker? Yes. Did Anthony chickillo get the contract that he got because he was the only backup option at outside linebacker? Probably.

Another point on Anthony chickillo is that one of the worst special teams coaches in the league and Danny Smith was probably pounding on the table for him.

Should Artie Burns still be on the roster knowing that we are going to have to pay him an $800,000 bonus? Hell no.

Should Justin Hunter have actually spent as much time on our roster as he did given the lack of actual talent that He has? No hell no.

The fact is that Artie Burns is here. Bud Dupree did get paid on the 5th year option. Anthony chickillo does have a contract that makes him unlikely to get cut until probably the second year into it.

A couple people recently told me that my posts have changed in nature. Perhaps it's because I'm growing really tired of watching into listening to fans make excuses and defend players who do not deserve it. I'm tired of watching fans defend a front office that continues to be complacent. What should happen is Artie Burns should be cut this offseason. What should happen is that ola adeniyi should make the roster and be our number 3 outside linebacker and  Anthony chickillo should be a special teams only and an emergency outside linebacker.

What should happen is that unless Bud Dupree becomes me equivalent of an All-Pro player he should be let go after this season and not be given a new contract by the Steelers. That's not my expectation.

What should happen is unless Shawn Davis has an even better year this year than in 2018 he should be let go into free agency and not be given a new contract buy the Pittsburgh Steelers. That is not my expectation.

I see people make comments like oh I'm tired of seeing fans talk about what they think they remember from watching the game. Maybe it's not what we think we remember maybe instead it's what we know because we've actually watched and diagnose to the game because it's not that hard. When you see a guy run 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage and then get shoved for another six to seven yards away from the quarterback I'm sorry that I'm not really impressed with their ability. I am hopeful that I have to eat crow but just as other people said when this season is over do not be surprised if we weren't wrong about people like Anthony chickillo and Bud Dupree. Bud Dupree is probably our biggest liability on defense.

[Chieferific]

47 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Listen here's the thing and I mean this with all the respect in the world. For anybody who continues to say did Bud Dupree should have gotten the 5th year option you sound like a fool.

What was the better option? What FA could they have signed for the same amount of $ that would have been better? I don't like Dupree either. In fact, I think I was one of the few that disliked the pick. I didn't care about his Combine numbers. I didn't like what I saw on film. He got shoved around a lot and was wildly inconsistent (sound familiar?). If you want to argue that they should have drafted another OLB besides Watt, that's fine. I guess where we differ is given that they didn't draft a replacement, what is currently the best solution?  Meaning, it's not Bud's fault that signing him to the 5th year option was best for the team RIGHT NOW. They made that bed. Now they have to make the best of it and lie in it.

[VigilantZombie]

5 hours ago, Chieferific said:

What was the better option? What FA could they have signed for the same amount of $ that would have been better? I don't like Dupree either. In fact, I think I was one of the few that disliked the pick. I didn't care about his Combine numbers. I didn't like what I saw on film. He got shoved around a lot and was wildly inconsistent (sound familiar?). If you want to argue that they should have drafted another OLB besides Watt, that's fine. I guess where we differ is given that they didn't draft a replacement, what is currently the best solution?  Meaning, it's not Bud's fault that signing him to the 5th year option was best for the team RIGHT NOW. They made that bed. Now they have to make the best of it and lie in it.

I didn't say there was a better option. That is not what I said at all but that is not a reason to sign a guy to a 9.25 million-dollar contract that he doesn't deserve that is probably double what bud Dupree should have got. I really don't understand why that concept is so hard to grasp. And frankly if we're talking about a better option in free agency while he only got five and a half sacks. His production I don't believe would have been that hard to replace at a much cheaper cost. We're not talking about a perennial Pro Bowl player so you could look at pretty much any above average available outside linebacker in free agency that might have been there and I'm not saying they are better than Bud Dupree but I would argue that they would have been relatively equivalent and probably cheaper. The money is the biggest issue I have when it comes to Bud Dupree but my point the money itself as much as it is that I think that signing him to that 5th year option in the first place was bad for business. And sadly if he comes out here and has another mediocre season all he's really going to do is prove all those people myself included that said he shouldn't have been brought back at that price correct. Invest in this kind of money in him is suggesting that you believe that he's going to turn the corner now I don't think that has anything to do with why they gave him that 50 or option I think that it had everything to do with the fact that they didn't have another option which my point is I think that's a bad reason to give that kind of money to a guy that hasn't actually earned it. I just feel like people should stop acting like Bud Dupree and some of these other guys are doing anything special because they're not he's headed very average player at best

[Chieferific]

20 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I didn't say there was a better option. That is not what I said at all but that is not a reason to sign a guy to a 9.25 million-dollar contract that he doesn't deserve that is probably double what bud Dupree should have got. I really don't understand why that concept is so hard to grasp. And frankly if we're talking about a better option in free agency while he only got five and a half sacks. His production I don't believe would have been that hard to replace at a much cheaper cost. We're not talking about a perennial Pro Bowl player so you could look at pretty much any above average available outside linebacker in free agency that might have been there and I'm not saying they are better than Bud Dupree but I would argue that they would have been relatively equivalent and probably cheaper. The money is the biggest issue I have when it comes to Bud Dupree but my point the money itself as much as it is that I think that signing him to that 5th year option in the first place was bad for business. And sadly if he comes out here and has another mediocre season all he's really going to do is prove all those people myself included that said he shouldn't have been brought back at that price correct. Invest in this kind of money in him is suggesting that you believe that he's going to turn the corner now I don't think that has anything to do with why they gave him that 50 or option I think that it had everything to do with the fact that they didn't have another option which my point is I think that's a bad reason to give that kind of money to a guy that hasn't actually earned it. I just feel like people should stop acting like Bud Dupree and some of these other guys are doing anything special because they're not he's headed very average player at best

Do you not see the contradiction here? There isn't a better option but that's not a reason to sign him? That doesn't make sense. Is that concept hard to grasp? If there isn't a BETTER option then wth are we talking about? I ask you what similarly priced or cheaper FA was a BETTER option? Clay Mathews and his 3.5 sacks? Nope. Shane Ray? Nope. Bruce Irvin? Nope. Justin Houston and is $12 Million/year Avg? Nope. I hate that I feel like I have to defend a player I do not like but where is the BETTER option. Here, I'll help you find one...

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2019OLB.php

Edited June 13, 2019 by Chieferific