#1 pick - who do the Cardinals draft?

[Forge]

Honestly, I think what the 49ers do at #2 is a little more compelling. While I don't think that Bosa to the Cards is a lock, I'd still consider that the favorite, so if they take him and the 49ers can't trade down (if they even want to), what do they do? Williams is the #2 player on most boards, but the 49ers have absolutely no need for Williams despite him being the second best player in the draft. They need an edge rusher in the worst way, so do you take Allen, whom some may not even consider a full time edge rusher at the NFL level (I think that there's some merit to the idea that he would be a SAM linebacker in our scheme on early downs and then maybe rush from the edge on passing downs), do you take the best player available in Williams and just find a way to make it work despite all of your defensive linemen basically be the same player? 

[Hopper15]

4 hours ago, Forge said:

Honestly, I think what the 49ers do at #2 is a little more compelling. While I don't think that Bosa to the Cards is a lock, I'd still consider that the favorite, so if they take him and the 49ers can't trade down (if they even want to), what do they do? Williams is the #2 player on most boards, but the 49ers have absolutely no need for Williams despite him being the second best player in the draft. They need an edge rusher in the worst way, so do you take Allen, whom some may not even consider a full time edge rusher at the NFL level (I think that there's some merit to the idea that he would be a SAM linebacker in our scheme on early downs and then maybe rush from the edge on passing downs), do you take the best player available in Williams and just find a way to make it work despite all of your defensive linemen basically be the same player? 

After how badly the Foster and Thomas picks have turned out. Lynch better take the best player available.

Allen is a better fit as a 3-4 OLB anyway. 

[Forge]

5 hours ago, Hopper15 said:

After how badly the Foster and Thomas picks have turned out. Lynch better take the best player available.

Allen is a better fit as a 3-4 OLB anyway. 

I'm okay with the Foster brick. The thomas one hurts for that regime. They've added a few nice pieces in the draft though otherwise, so not super worried.

But we seriously have nowhere to put Williams. I'm really torn on the situation. I think the pick ends up being Allen, but I'll be really interested to see where their thought process lies

[SFrush]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

I'm okay with the Foster brick. The things one hurts for that regime. They've added wire a few nice pieces in the draft though, so not super worried.

But we seriously have nowhere to put Williams. I'm really torn on the situation. I think the pick ends up being Allen, but I'll be really interested to see where their thought process lies

He would be the one tech and an instant upgrade over Jones and Mitchell.

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, SFrush said:

He would be the one tech and an instant upgrade over Jones and Mitchell.

He's definitely not a 1 tech, and that would be a huge waste of his pass rush ability. He'd get crushed in the run game. If he has a flaw it's that he doesn't see doubled all that often and I'm not sure he's great when he does

[SFrush]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

He's definitely not a 1 tech, and that would be a huge waste of his pass rush ability

How so? A one tech isn't just limited to stopping the run.

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, SFrush said:

How so? A one tech isn't just limited to stopping the run.

Read the other part of the post I edited after. 

As the one tech, he's going to see more doubles, something he's not going to have the easiest time of at his size. Even Buck struggles on doubles. He'd get washed in the run game and either be a liability or a rotational player.

I want nothing to do with Williams as a one tech. It'd be just like putting Solly at the five.

I'd be curious to here other's thoughts on him as a one, but I just see that as a bad fit and a waste

@Ozzy, @Fureys49ers @CWood21 @BleedTheClock

What say you? Q Williams as a one tech in 43 under?

[SFrush]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

Read the other part of the post I edited after. 

As the one tech, he's going to see more doubles, something he's not going to have the easiest time of at his size. Even Buck struggles on doubles. He'd get washed in the run game and either be a liability or a rotational player.

I want nothing to do with Williams as a one tech. It'd be just like putting Solly at the five.

I'd be curious to here other's thoughts on him as a one, but I just see that as a bad fit and a waste

@Ozzy, @Fureys49ers @CWood21 @BleedTheClock

What say you? Q Williams as a one tech?

 After reading the parts in bold it's clear we really don't see eye on eye on his ability. He's faced his share of double teams this season and he just continues to find a way to get in the backfield even as a NT in 3-4.  Plus if your double teaming Williams that's actually helping Buckner. I don't see that as a negative.

 

 

[CWood21]

43 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'd be curious to here other's thoughts on him as a one, but I just see that as a bad fit and a waste

@Ozzy, @Fureys49ers @CWood21 @BleedTheClock

What say you? Q Williams as a one tech in 43 under?

Can he play the 1-tech?  I don't see why not.  It wasn't like he had issues defending the run in college.  Do you want him playing it?  That's probably a different answer.  He's probably taking a hit in terms of personal stats, but the value is there.  I mean, how good is the Steelers' D without Casey Hampton?  Hell, Jay Ratliff gave the Cowboys some damn good years.

[Forge]

27 minutes ago, SFrush said:

 After reading the parts in bold it's clear we really don't see eye on eye on his ability. He's faced his share of double teams this season and he just continues to find a way to get in the backfield even as a NT in 3-4.  Plus if your double teaming Williams that's actually helping Buckner. I don't see that as a negative.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Williams, and I Think he is clearly the #2 guy in this draft class, if not number one. And maybe he faces doubles more than I think, but most of what I have seen was matched up on a single guy. He was super impressive against LSU, even when they attempted to double him, so it's not like he never faces it, just to be clear. Unfortunately, I don't have all the clip access I used to either . But also then asking that to translate at the next level is going to be a tough task when you're a little squat build wise and probably closer to 285 than 300. His ability really isn't a question, I just don't see that as the best fit for him at all. I think you'd be wasting some of that skill. 

As for Buck, the thing is, I don't think it much helps him. Jones and Mitchell already eat up double teams as well, so do Solly and Armstead when they are inside. It's not like Buck is getting doubled ever down or anything. Secondarily, asking him to improve on a 12 sack season is going to be tough, even if you add Williams. Even if he has a better season, what are you adding, 3 sacks? I'd rather keep him at 12 and get 10 from the edge I think it's unlikely that you get two interior rushers with 10+ sacks. 

Then there's the team component. The problem with having an interior rush and only an interior rush is that any quarterback even halfway mobile can roll out of that if there's nothing on the edge. That's one of the things killing us right now. It's a huge benefit to Chris Jones in KC to have Dee Ford and Justin Houston screaming off the edge. If you have exterior / interior pressure, makes it a lot harder on the quarterback. Plus, I think it's much more beneficial in the turnover category to have an edge rush as well. Hits from the blindside will obviously increase fumbles, may lead to interceptions. Quarterbacks can see interior pressure and have a little more time to adjust. If they are going to go down, they can cradle the ball. I just don't think its as great for turnovers, something the 49ers desperately need. Now, if you have Aaron Donald, that's different...and hey, maybe Williams is the next donald. Could certainly be the case. I'm just a lot more amenable to Williams as the pick if we do something in FA for that edge rush. 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Can he play the 1-tech?  I don't see why not.  It wasn't like he had issues defending the run in college.  Do you want him playing it?  That's probably a different answer.  He's probably taking a hit in terms of personal stats, but the value is there.  I mean, how good is the Steelers' D without Casey Hampton?  Hell, Jay Ratliff gave the Cowboys some damn good years.

That would be my biggest thing. Maybe I'm underselling his ability a little bit to actually play it, and that would be fine...but just seems like a waste of what he can actually do. Like you're not going to get the most from him at any point. 

[Hopper15]

17 minutes ago, SFrush said:

 After reading the parts in bold it's clear we really don't see eye on eye on his ability. He's faced his share of double teams this season and he just continues to find a way to get in the backfield even as a NT in 3-4.  Plus if your double teaming Williams that's actually helping Buckner. I don't see that as a negative.

 

 

Yeah he kind of lost me there when he said liability. I think Jonah Williams had the perfect description of what it's like blocking Quinnen Williams when he said it's like trying to block a 300 pound bar of soap.  The more you watch QW the more you understand where Jonah was coming from because of how exceptionally he uses his hands.

FWIW I think he can play the one tech or the three tech.  

[Forge]

Just now, Hopper15 said:

Yeah he kind of lost me there when he said liability. I think Jonah Williams had the perfect description of what it's like blocking Quinnen Williams when he said it's like trying to block a 300 pound bar of soap.  The more you watch QW the more you understand where Jonah was coming from because of how exceptionally he uses his hands.

FWIW I think he can play the one tech or the three tech.  

I just don't see him at 300. Maybe I'm underselling the weight? Seems more like he's in the 280's to me. We are talking about transitioning to the NFL when you face these double teams as well...that's a lot different than facing these SEC guys. Taking on that double team at the next level I feel like would be difficult at his size in the run game and would see him get washed out a ton. 

Do agree about the hand usage though. Its totally top notch. 

Again, I don't hate Williams or anything. #2 guy in the class for me. It's more or less about the fit within the 49ers specifically. I've never considered him as a 1 tech, doesn't seem like a great use of his talents to me, but thats also why I'm soliciting opinions LOL

[Swift21]

47 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Can he play the 1-tech?  I don't see why not.  It wasn't like he had issues defending the run in college.  Do you want him playing it?  That's probably a different answer.  He's probably taking a hit in terms of personal stats, but the value is there.  I mean, how good is the Steelers' D without Casey Hampton?  Hell, Jay Ratliff gave the Cowboys some damn good years.

Here's another question. Would you use the second overall pick on Josh Allen if the plan is to make him a SAM LB in a 4-3 under?

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Swift21 said:

Here's another question. Would you use the second overall pick on Josh Allen if the plan is to make him a SAM LB in a 4-3 under?

That's the other half of my conundrum with what to do at #2 LOL. I think Allen plays SAM on early downs, then comes in on the edge on passing downs. I think that they would use him in both spots.