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#1 pick - who do the Cardinals draft?

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5 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

As I said, we have NO outside rush. Williams isn't going to fix that. Taking him would be the mistake, IMO. 

There are times when need is the smarter pick than BPA and the 9ers are in such a situation.

Last time I checked FA is before the draft.  Who's to say we won't a sign pass rusher or two.

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1 minute ago, Swift21 said:

In most cases you can get by with just average play from your SAM LB (partly because of the reason you listed) with how much defenses are in nickel and sub packages though. 

I think he's more or less referring to the fact that Allen wouldn't be "situational" with regards to on the field. He'd be used in a variety of ways (think Derwin James, the EDGE / LB version) and always on the field, even if not strictly always an edge rusher. 

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1 minute ago, Swift21 said:

Last time I checked FA is before the draft.  Who's to say we won't a sign pass rusher or two.

And what dynamite pass rushers are available? Most of them have only flashed some ability like Dee Ford or Ziggy Ansah...you think Frank Clark is getting away from Seattle? Nah. Maybe Graham from Philly? Doubt it. Sure, I want them to sign the best they can. But I ALSO want them to get the best EDGE rusher possible in the 1st round.

The cupboard is absolutely bare for the 9ers at the EDGE position. No threats to the QB at all. We need talent in both FA and the Draft.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Don't hate the idea. Not sure I love giving up so many pieces to this draft in the move (We are picking in the top 2 after all, even though it was at least somewhat due to Jimmy being hurt), but I can get behind this idea if we spend and sign some quality free agents.  Sign a Mosely / Hicks / Barr / etc to fill in the linebacker corps,  a quality free safety (looking at you ET!), and some depth pieces, I think it would be a quality team. Not impossible with all the cap room, but lots of teams have cap room, so not easy

The thing is, the multiplier effect by having Bosa on the EDGE and moving Thomas inside is just exponential IMO.   Far more than having Thomas & Williams.  It's worth the squeeze.  Having that EDGE talent just makes other players so much better.   An accurate (if somewhat lazy) corollary is elder Bosa in LAC - when he's on, Ingram & he and the rest of that D feast, when he was out, that was a very ordinary D (it took a while for him to get into game shape, but now he's just beasting again).   I think you'd see the same with younger Bosa & Thomas moving inside.   

FWIW I think you could get a 4th for Nick Mullens (not from us though lol), and mitigate one of those lost picks.    Lynch is creative enough to think that way, the real Q is whether he wants to pay that price (and what ARI is thinking, Keim may not be creative enough to think in terms of trading down 2x lol, he may go for the trade down to 1.4/1.5 and get the OL and full haul right there and then - and that would likely net him 2 extra 1sts with a 2nd going back in future years).

Edited by Broncofan

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

And what dynamite pass rushers are available? Most of them have only flashed some ability like Dee Ford or Ziggy Ansah...you think Frank Clark is getting away from Seattle? Nah. Maybe Graham from Philly? Doubt it. Sure, I want them to sign the best they can. But I ALSO want them to get the best EDGE rusher possible in the 1st round.

The cupboard is absolutely bare for the 9ers at the EDGE position. No threats to the QB at all. We need talent in both FA and the Draft.

Exactly who I expect us to target with Mayhew under Lynch. He had a shoulder injury that affected his season but its nothing he can't bounce back from next season.

Edited by Swift21

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2 minutes ago, Swift21 said:

Exactly who expect us to target with Mayhew under Lynch. He had a shoulder injury that affected his season but its nothing he can't bounce back from next season.

I like Ziggy despite his injury concerns. However, there is no way I go into the season adding just him when I could have had Bosa/Allen/Polite/Burns etc in the 1st round. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

And what dynamite pass rushers are available? Most of them have only flashed some ability like Dee Ford or Ziggy Ansah...you think Frank Clark is getting away from Seattle? Nah. Maybe Graham from Philly? Doubt it. Sure, I want them to sign the best they can. But I ALSO want them to get the best EDGE rusher possible in the 1st round.

The cupboard is absolutely bare for the 9ers at the EDGE position. No threats to the QB at all. We need talent in both FA and the Draft.

 

5 minutes ago, Swift21 said:

Exactly who I expect us to target with Mayhew under Lynch. He had a shoulder injury that affected his season but its nothing he can't bounce back from next season.

 

FWIW, only Ansah is likely the guy who hits FA - I seriously don't see Ford or Clark making it out, and PHI usually finds a way to keep key guys.   So that means Ansah is going to be heavily sought after.  Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's not like it's a lock SF will get him.    And given the cost, an elite EDGE at Rd1 prices just makes way more sense than Ansah's injury risk and top-of-market prices.    A team who can't sniff a Bosa/Allen type talent, sure, they don't have that choice.  There I see the fit a lot more.

Edited by Broncofan

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Just now, Broncofan said:

FWIW, only Ansah is likely the guy who hits FA - I seriously don't see Ford or Clark making it out, and PHI usually finds a way to keep key guys.   So that means Ansah is going to be heavily sought after.  Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's not like it's a lock SF will get him.

Mods! He's raining on my parade! Get him! @Forge What you gonna do about this?! :P

You are very likely correct, but a desperate 9er fan can hope, right?

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35 minutes ago, Swift21 said:

Exactly who I expect us to target with Mayhew under Lynch. He had a shoulder injury that affected his season but its nothing he can't bounce back from next season.

He has an injury every season lol

I expect us to go after him as well, but I want nothing to do with him personally if he's signing a multi year extension. A 30 year old pass rusher with an injury history, including back troubles/? Yeah, I'll pass unless it's a one year deal (or you know, a contract that essentially breaks down to a one year deal even if there are additional years added) . 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Honestly, if I'm SF, I trade up to 1.1 to get Bosa, and meet the 'Zona asking price.   He solves your problem right away, and paired with another good CB to go with Witherspoon, that's the foundation of a really upgraded D.      Being that's it's a generational talent, I could see something like 1.1 and 2020 2nd from ARI for 1.2, 3.3, 4.3 and 2020's 1st (with SF gambling that their 2020 1st will only be in the mid-teens worst, and if they make playoffs, then it's even a lower tradeoff in value - I think we can all see ARI is likely still a bottom 5 team next year).

The reason for ARI to trade down from 1.1 to 1.2 - that pick then becomes very plausible for a team to lock in Haskins, so a 2nd trade down becomes very plausible.  Now, if OAK keeps Carr, 1.2 is likely still too high - but if OAK & Haskins gets enough heat, then moving up to 1.2 is the only way to ensure they (or NYG/JAX) gets him - and we know GM Gettleman is a guy who's not afraid to move up to get his guy.   SF making the big piece the 2020 1st upgrade also ensures ARI doesn't get better as quickly, so the trade-back isn't a huge gap.

As much as I don't see Haskins being the 1.1 target, but Bosa, anytime after that, yeah, Haskins is in play.   Trading from 1.1 to 1.2 would allow ARI to triple up on moving down.  None of this happens until after the Combine and team visits, but it's fun to speculate...

Don’t think it’s a good idea of giving up picks to your divisional rival as well as giving them the arguable best player in the draft in which it fixes their biggest area of need. I know I wouldn’t.

 

If I’m AZ, I’m only trading with Oakland cause:

 

1. They have the most ammo & Bosa would be a very good Mack replacement.

2. It prevents him from going to a divisional rival.

Edited by ClutchDJ

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ClutchDJ said:

Don’t think it’s a good idea of giving up picks to your divisional rival as well as giving them the arguable best player in the draft in which it fixes their biggest area of need. I know I wouldn’t.

That and Keim's willingness to try and do 2 deals instead of 1 are what I see as obstacles.   Certainly ARI isn't going to ask for just market value - they'd need to be blown away by SF to do the deal.   The 2020 1st/2nd, and 3rd/4th, if the 49ers miss the playoffs, no matter where ARI ends up, is a very high return (300+ pts above the trade chart - it should be that way at a minimum, as the trade chart is just a guide, and it has to be a clear W for ARI to deal with SF).

If they take the above deal though, and then say, dealt with NYG 1.2 for 1.6 and 2020 1st and 2019 3rd - they'd have 3 2020 1sts, 2 3rds and a 4th for 2019 - and still have 1.6 where they likely get their guy.   But that also requires both SF & NYG to be on-board to make that work.   So it's tricky.  And as you pointed out, you only help SF out if they are helping you out more.   So it's a question of what Keim is thinking.   The one reason to do it - he probably gets a lot more than just trading with NYG alone for 1.1, as teams likely are targeting 3 spot to get ahead of OAK (and certainly 4-5 if OAK is passing to get ahead of NYG).

Edited by Broncofan

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Trading out of #1 just got easier with Dwayne Haskins declaring. Both NYG and Jacksonville will be debating on jumping up to ensure getting him, so Arizona has an out.

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6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Trading out of #1 just got easier with Dwayne Haskins declaring. Both NYG and Jacksonville will be debating on jumping up to ensure getting him, so Arizona has an out.

Personally still don’t think that’ll be necessary. Trading with the Raiders at pick 4 should suffice. Williams, Bosa, Allen going in the first three picks (positions of need meets top talent). Raiders being in complete rebuild and needing talent almost everywhere except QB, OL and DT I’m sure they will welcome any and all added draft picks. Even allow Gruden to take his “grinder” at QB so he can attempt to roster 4 going into next year like we all know he wants to.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Q. Wms is talented, but I do not want the 9ers to take another interior D lineman at all. Especially in the 1st round. Doesn't matter who the guy is, we have a logjam at that position in a huge way. Yet we are so needy in the way of outside pass rush it's hilarious...if it wasn't so painful. I would take Allen over Wms every day, every opportunity. Would I rather have Bosa? Sure, but if he isn't available, I want the next best EDGE pass rusher. The talent we have at EDGE now is nearly pathetic. 

You want an edge rusher, that's understandable. I want one as well. But if you have a chance to take an elite prospect that could turn out to be the best defensive player in this draft you have to seriously consider it. Ruling it out would be very closed minded regardless of need.

Edited by SFrush

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6 minutes ago, SFrush said:

You want an edge rusher, that's understandable. I want one as well. But if you have a chance to take an elite prospect that could turn out to be the best defensive player in this draft you have to seriously consider it. Ruling it out would be very closed minded regardless of need.

Fine then. I am closed minded and focused on need. If the 9ers are wise, that is what they will focus on: Need. It was a glaring deficiency in every single game. It cannot be ignored again. We have plenty of good talent on the inside, led by Buckner. Adding another even stellar inside DL is not going to have the impact a stellar EDGE would. It just isn't. Nothing is going to change my stance. Nothing is going to improve our D more than adding the best EDGE available, not simply best player available.

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