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Antonio Brown missed wk. 17 game due to dispute w/ teammate

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1 hour ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

What a dysfunctional locker room, although I definitely suspect much of AB's issues stem from feeling like JuJu is stealing his thunder...

He and JuJu literally do commercials, train, and hang together more than most others on the team. Completely baseless. As another person on our forum put it, you can look at it like this. though I added the bolded/italicized to their post.

Quote

 

He and JuJu literally do commercials, train, and hang together more than most others on the team. Completely baseless. As another person on our forum put it, you can look at it like this...

Ben slips mini-camp, Brown unhappy because he shows up to almost everything. 

Brown gets injured, Ben develops chemistry with other WRs. 

Because of the chemistry, Ben spreads the ball around, Brown comments about underutilization. 

Ben calls out Brown saying get open while also leading the league in uncatchable targets towards Brown.

Ben calls out Brown for needing to have targets. 

Ben calls out Brown for running wrong routes leading to INTs. 

Ben wants to rerun a practice play, Brown unhappy they have to do it again. 

 

Ben and AB's connection was off all season. And I honestly think that that is what drove Brown to act like a little diva this season. If you follow Brown the past two or three years you can see he is truly concerned about his legacy. He knows he has some HoF credentials but a Super Bowl Title would help a lot. I would actually argue that Brown doesn't want a Lombardi to signify his team was the best or to help the Steelers organization, but rather for his own legacy which may be the most selfish thing ever though I'd argue TO coming back in 2004 was for the exact same reason. He's routinely talked about getting one whereas Ben hasn't really talked about it over that span. And with his legacy, Brown also wants to continue to be considered the best and he likely felt that Ben played a role in his down production this year. If I am reading PFF/Matthew Freedman correct, 37.2% of AB's targets from Ben this year were uncatchable which was good for first in the league. On the season 64 of Brown's targets weren't caught. That's a whopping 70% of uncaught passes - in a season where he had 0 drops according to Stats LLC - that fall predominately on the QB (subjectively speaking using PFF's interpretation). AB was frustrated with Ben and Ben primarily before anyone else this season. I would argue that until I'm blue in the face.

Whether or not he has the right to be frustrated, however, is the matter at hand...

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4 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I dont think its a stretch to say that Pit goes into 2019/2020 without both Brown and Bell. They need to move on from the me-first guys and rebuild that culture.

The biggest Me First Guy is the QB. So what do they do there? That's the issue. Somehow three grown men couldn't put aside their egos (and personal greed in Bell's case) for the betterment of the franchise.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ET80 said:

Seattle. Final answer.

I just can't see it after Pete got rid of players that he thought were trouble for the locker room.

Edited by Sacks98

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1 hour ago, BlaqOptic said:

Two of the most asininely ignorant things I have ever heard on this forum...

He was defended for kicking the punter in the face. It was said that Brown was trying to jump him and the punter put his face on Brown's foot. I can go to the old forum and link it if you like. I'd take JuJu over AB right now. Last year's Brown? Nope, but even though he is still elusive he has begun to slow and if they are both Steelers next year I believe JuJu will be the clear #1.

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57 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said:

The biggest Me First Guy is the QB. So what do they do there? That's the issue. Somehow three grown men couldn't put aside their egos (and personal greed in Bell's case) for the betterment of the franchise.

This. The problem is Big Ben, plain & simple. He's the leader and sets a bad example for everyone. 

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2 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

He and JuJu literally do commercials, train, and hang together more than most others on the team. Completely baseless. As another person on our forum put it, you can look at it like this. though I added the bolded/italicized to their post.

Ben and AB's connection was off all season. And I honestly think that that is what drove Brown to act like a little diva this season. If you follow Brown the past two or three years you can see he is truly concerned about his legacy. He knows he has some HoF credentials but a Super Bowl Title would help a lot. I would actually argue that Brown doesn't want a Lombardi to signify his team was the best or to help the Steelers organization, but rather for his own legacy which may be the most selfish thing ever though I'd argue TO coming back in 2004 was for the exact same reason. He's routinely talked about getting one whereas Ben hasn't really talked about it over that span. And with his legacy, Brown also wants to continue to be considered the best and he likely felt that Ben played a role in his down production this year. If I am reading PFF/Matthew Freedman correct, 37.2% of AB's targets from Ben this year were uncatchable which was good for first in the league. On the season 64 of Brown's targets weren't caught. That's a whopping 70% of uncaught passes - in a season where he had 0 drops according to Stats LLC - that fall predominately on the QB (subjectively speaking using PFF's interpretation). AB was frustrated with Ben and Ben primarily before anyone else this season. I would argue that until I'm blue in the face.

Whether or not he has the right to be frustrated, however, is the matter at hand...

Brown won't outshine Rice, so...maybe he should relax. :)

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I feel like this stuff came out of nowhere for brown. He's got a good QB and up until this year they're a perennial playoff team. Get ahold of yourself.

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9 hours ago, Malik said:

Ben has had a problem with every high profile member of that offense from players to his OC. Maybe it's Ben?

Huh?

Brown he hasnt had a problem with until this year, and while Ben may be a hypocrite, Brown hasnt exactly been a team first player the last couple years.

Bell was called out by alot of people, and Ben barely called him out.

Martavis was a pot head and an idiot.    Who cares if Ben called him out?  He needed to be called out.

Haley and Ben never got along.

Ben is a prima donna himself....Im not denying that....but even if its PARTLY Ben it sure as hell isnt ALL Ben.

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11 hours ago, Starless said:

This kind of thing doesn't happen in a healthy locker room. Tomlin has to answer for all the turmoil that's gone on with that team over the last couple of years. He's clearly not running a tight ship.

I think at times, the criticism of Tomlin has been way too harsh.  But at some point, a coach does have a shelf life...and he seems to be reaching the end of it.  I still think AB has been a bit of a closet "WR diva" for a while now, and things like the Bell holdout are way outside a HC jurisdiction.  But they've had all manner of minor locker room flare ups that sorta vent out into the media spotlight over the last few years.  At some point...that much stuff venting to the public, there are problems internally.

Stupid to just move on from a guy who continually delivers results though.  And for all i know...maybe he's actually been doing an incredibly job of keeping things under control, that the minor flare-ups like this are the only sort of thing that even leaks out?  

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32 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I think at times, the criticism of Tomlin has been way too harsh.  But at some point, a coach does have a shelf life...and he seems to be reaching the end of it.  I still think AB has been a bit of a closet "WR diva" for a while now, and things like the Bell holdout are way outside a HC jurisdiction.  But they've had all manner of minor locker room flare ups that sorta vent out into the media spotlight over the last few years.  At some point...that much stuff venting to the public, there are problems internally.

Stupid to just move on from a guy who continually delivers results though.  And for all i know...maybe he's actually been doing an incredibly job of keeping things under control, that the minor flare-ups like this are the only sort of thing that even leaks out?  

Good post.

Like I said on the Steeler forum, its funny how coaches like Jon Harbaugh, Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, Sean Peyton, etc....get more respect than Tomlin despite having their own glaring flaws that have held their teams back.   Tomlin is definitely flawed, but most coaches are.   There is a reason that Bill Belichick is viewed practically as a god amongst NFL coaches....because there isnt anyone remotely close to him.  Besides Belichick, who has had notably more success during the Tomlin era?   What coaches have been significantly better?   And dont tell me "Well, he had Ben". becuase thats a stupid argument.   McCarthy had Rodgers.  Payton has had Brees.  Dungy had Manning....three coaches with QBs I think everyone can agree are/were better than Ben.   That being the case, why didnt these coaches achieve more?

Dislike Tomlin all you want (not you, Tugboat), as long as you are realistic and understand that, even with his flaws, it would be hard to NOTABLY upgrade from him....not because Tomlin is special, but because the vast, VAST majority of coaches AREN'T special.   

In regards to Ben and Brown....they are both prima donnas and Brown is just pissy this year because Ben developed better chemistry with Juju and Brown didnt get the numbers he is used to.   Ben needs to keep his big mouth shut when talking to the media, but anyone claiming he is the problem is utterly clueless.     Is he PART of the problem?   Yes, but Brown's diva personality has come out more and more the last 2-3 years.

Bottom line is....when youre losing, everything seems grimmer.   I guarantee if the Steelers had won a few more games and were heading into the playoffs, this wouldnt even be a story.

And no, Brown isnt going to be traded.  By training camp, this will be a nothing burger.

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1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Good post.

Like I said on the Steeler forum, its funny how coaches like Jon Harbaugh, Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, Sean Peyton, etc....get more respect than Tomlin despite having their own glaring flaws that have held their teams back.   Tomlin is definitely flawed, but most coaches are.   There is a reason that Bill Belichick is viewed practically as a god amongst NFL coaches....because there isnt anyone remotely close to him.  Besides Belichick, who has had notably more success during the Tomlin era?   What coaches have been significantly better?   And dont tell me "Well, he had Ben". becuase thats a stupid argument.   McCarthy had Rodgers.  Payton has had Brees.  Dungy had Manning....three coaches with QBs I think everyone can agree are/were better than Ben.   That being the case, why didnt these coaches achieve more?

Dislike Tomlin all you want (not you, Tugboat), as long as you are realistic and understand that, even with his flaws, it would be hard to NOTABLY upgrade from him....not because Tomlin is special, but because the vast, VAST majority of coaches AREN'T special.   

In regards to Ben and Brown....they are both prima donnas and Brown is just pissy this year because Ben developed better chemistry with Juju and Brown didnt get the numbers he is used to.   Ben needs to keep his big mouth shut when talking to the media, but anyone claiming he is the problem is utterly clueless.     Is he PART of the problem?   Yes, but Brown's diva personality has come out more and more the last 2-3 years.

Bottom line is....when youre losing, everything seems grimmer.   I guarantee if the Steelers had won a few more games and were heading into the playoffs, this wouldnt even be a story.

And no, Brown isnt going to be traded.  By training camp, this will be a nothing burger.

Sorry, but it's been proven for years, with articles dating back to 2010 time-frame--but to be more accurate, you should say "Payton has had Brees in a Dome for a minimum, of 9 games a year."  Anytime anyone tries to argue that Brees is better than Ben, for me, that is first and foremost in my mind; Brees wouldn't be half the QB he is if he had to play in Pittsburgh, and IMO, would NOT put up as good of numbers over a career if one were to switch the out the two...and I have ZERO reservation in saying that, Ben would be sitting on 60K yards, 70% Comp %, and 400 TDs right now, if the roles were reversed.

Anyway, not the point of my reply...the main point is Ben is one heck of a QB, and if Brown really did get all pissy and just up and left the team, because he doesn't think Ben has been 'good enough' this year in getting him the catches, well, good luck buddy, in finding a better one!  Especially a QB that is going to have the same chemistry and trust built, that these two have over the past 5-6 years. Then, to let it completely come first??  Ahead of the team in its attempt to make the Playoffs??  I don't know. I do not necessarily agree that this will all wash under the rug by the Preseason.  It certainly is possible, but I know I won't forget that, so soon, myself.

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3 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Huh?

Brown he hasnt had a problem with until this year, and while Ben may be a hypocrite, Brown hasnt exactly been a team first player the last couple years.

Bell was called out by alot of people, and Ben barely called him out.

Martavis was a pot head and an idiot.    Who cares if Ben called him out?  He needed to be called out.

Haley and Ben never got along.

Ben is a prima donna himself....Im not denying that....but even if its PARTLY Ben it sure as hell isnt ALL Ben.

I remember Jags vs Steelers last regular season, they had beef nah? It's most def not this year alone.

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