rampantjet Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Bobby816 said: I get that and actually like the game plan of free agency. I personally think we go after Fowler and Quinn, but that’s besides the point. My point is merly that if we sign 2 edges and didn’t fill holes in other areas why draft an edge there? Let’s say we miss on Bell... Jacobs could immediately start and be a huge player for us. Where at let’s say Gary or Ferrell would be rotational guys for a year or 2. Same for a guy like Jonah Williams. He can start right away somewhere on our line. I totally get your point. I just think , if we hit edge in FA... it should be a 3rd pick in the draft need this draft. I think Philly a few years ago(among other teams) have proven that you can never have enough pass rushers. Especially if one of them is Fowler, since he is barely a pass rusher. Also I don't think anyone is suggesting we take Gary or Ferrell at 3.... or they shouldn't be, I'd only consider edge at 3 if Bosa or Allen are there regardless of what we get in FA. Of those 2 edges are gone by 3 then it is Quinnen or trade back in my book. And if i WAS gonna go with an offensive player at 3 the only one i can see taking is DK if his medicals check out and if he does what i think he'll do at the combine. Top notch WR's are much harder to find than top notch RB's. I really like Jacobs but there are like 3 or 4 other RB's in this draft that i have ranked right there with him that can be had in the 3rd round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 7:17 AM, Bobby816 said: I get that and actually like the game plan of free agency. I personally think we go after Fowler and Quinn, but that’s besides the point. My point is merly that if we sign 2 edges and didn’t fill holes in other areas why draft an edge there? Let’s say we miss on Bell... Jacobs could immediately start and be a huge player for us. Where at let’s say Gary or Ferrell would be rotational guys for a year or 2. Same for a guy like Jonah Williams. He can start right away somewhere on our line. I totally get your point. I just think , if we hit edge in FA... it should be a 3rd pick in the draft need this draft. Drafting Jacobs at 3 is a huge reach and I've been very vocal about my feelings for him him as a player, but bottom line you should never draft by need. It's the biggest mistake organizations can ever make, and is a recipe to get smoked. You're draft picks are supposed to be 10 year players, whereas free agents should be expected to be 2-3 year players at best. So to answer your question: the draft should serve as an avenue to add talent for the long-term whereas free agency is a short-term fix. There are 3-4 players in this draft worth a top 5 pick (all are pass rushers), then there is a big drop off. How badly will you feel 3 years from now if you draft Jonah Williams who turns out to be an OK starter instead of say Allen, who becomes a superstar? My guess is you wouldn't feel that good. In a stronger draft, I probably wouldn't take Jacobs until the late teens/early 20s. In this draft, I'd consider him as high as 10. There's a lot of parity in this draft and he's the kind of player that I feel will be successful and fills a huge hole on offense, but you don't just take him at 3. Need to trade down and have a plan A, B, C, D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, jetskid007 said: Drafting Jacobs at 3 is a huge reach and I've been very vocal about my feelings for him him as a player, but bottom line you should never draft by need. It's the biggest mistake organizations can ever make, and is a recipe to get smoked. You're draft picks are supposed to be 10 year players, whereas free agents should be expected to be 2-3 year players at best. So to answer your question: the draft should serve as an avenue to add talent for the long-term whereas free agency is a short-term fix. There are 3-4 players in this draft worth a top 5 pick (all are pass rushers), then there is a big drop off. How badly will you feel 3 years from now if you draft Jonah Williams who turns out to be an OK starter instead of say Allen, who becomes a superstar? My guess is you wouldn't feel that good. In a stronger draft, I probably wouldn't take Jacobs until the late teens/early 20s. In this draft, I'd consider him as high as 10. There's a lot of parity in this draft and he's the kind of player that I feel will be successful and fills a huge hole on offense, but you don't just take him at 3. Need to trade down and have a plan A, B, C, D. We tried that plan with Mo, Sheldon and Leo. And it ended with letting 2 go. But they were BPA not need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: We tried that plan with Mo, Sheldon and Leo. And it ended with letting 2 go. But they were BPA not need. All picks had a varying degree of success. Wilkerson was a good draft pick who didn't work out long-term; Jets should've let him walk. Sheldon is the 3rd best player drafted in the top 15 picks. Had we drafted "need", it would've likely been Jarvis Jones and we would've gotten burned. When you think about it, Sheldon also helped us land Sam Darnold, so no, that wasn't a wasted pick. The book is still being written on Leo and I'm confident he'll be a fine player. Gurley is a great RB but I don't think he would be having the same success had we drafted him, and Vic Beasley is one of the most overrated edge rushers in the NFL. Also have to consider a regime change with all of this. We didn't spend a top 5 pick on any of the players mentioned. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, jetskid007 said: All picks had a varying degree of success. Wilkerson was a good draft pick who didn't work out long-term; Jets should've let him walk. Sheldon is the 3rd best player drafted in the top 15 picks. Had we drafted "need", it would've likely been Jarvis Jones and we would've gotten burned. When you think about it, Sheldon also helped us land Sam Darnold, so no, that wasn't a wasted pick. The book is still being written on Leo and I'm confident he'll be a fine player. Gurley is a great RB but I don't think he would be having the same success had we drafted him, and Vic Beasley is one of the most overrated edge rushers in the NFL. Also have to consider a regime change with all of this. We didn't spend a top 5 pick on any of the players mentioned. I’m not exactly pro going after Jacobs at 3 either. I actually would be happy with an edge guy if Allen or Bosa are there. What I don’t want is Q Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Bobby816 said: I’m not exactly pro going after Jacobs at 3 either. I actually would be happy with an edge guy if Allen or Bosa are there. What I don’t want is Q Williams. And this is the issue for us. The top three if not four players in the draft arguably ... Allen, Bosa, Williams and Oliver. My preference too is Allen or Bosa but what if they go 1 / 2? We need to hope that either NYG, Jax or Denver trade up for a QB or that we can trade back with one of them if Bosa and Allen are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampantjet Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Bobby816 said: I’m not exactly pro going after Jacobs at 3 either. I actually would be happy with an edge guy if Allen or Bosa are there. What I don’t want is Q Williams. I know Jets fans have some PTSD due to taking so many interior linemen, but Q is the best player in the draft in many peoples opinions (mine included not that that matters). Taking the best player in the draft off the board because we have taken guys at his position to much is not good policy. I also think he is a different type of player than any of the other 3. Leo was viewed as a big power house that can penetrate with power and stack the interior on run plays. Penetrating with just power isn't always the most transferable skill from college to the NFL, due to the play strength of the linemen. Mo was kind of similar to Leo in that he was a bigger guy (well over 300), but Mo made his hay with usage of his long arms. That is why I think he had more success as a pass rusher than Leo. Mo looked like a home run. He was a good pick, but it is hard to foresee when a guy will just fall off of a cliff when he gets paid. His rep was pretty opposite of that before he became lazy. Sheldon has great movement skills which is how he would occasionally win, but didn't have Mo's length, and he didn't have a ton of pass rush moves. He did his thing with athleticism and high motor. Q stacks like Leo, but sheds better. He probably isn't going to have Mo's vine arms, but he is the best hand fighter to come out of college in forever. He has similar movement skills to Sheldon, though probably slightly less of a motor (still really good though). But he has the best repertoire of pass rush moves of the bunch, and insane instincts for where a play is going to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Q= Ndamakuh Suh. Probably the easiest comparison in this years draft, I don’t like the idea of taking him over Allen/Bosa or not trying to move down but he would I’m prove our Front 7 immediately and would help open up things for Leo and the rest of the DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, rampantjet said: I know Jets fans have some PTSD due to taking so many interior linemen, but Q is the best player in the draft in many peoples opinions (mine included not that that matters). Taking the best player in the draft off the board because we have taken guys at his position to much is not good policy. I also think he is a different type of player than any of the other 3. Leo was viewed as a big power house that can penetrate with power and stack the interior on run plays. Penetrating with just power isn't always the most transferable skill from college to the NFL, due to the play strength of the linemen. Mo was kind of similar to Leo in that he was a bigger guy (well over 300), but Mo made his hay with usage of his long arms. That is why I think he had more success as a pass rusher than Leo. Mo looked like a home run. He was a good pick, but it is hard to foresee when a guy will just fall off of a cliff when he gets paid. His rep was pretty opposite of that before he became lazy. Sheldon has great movement skills which is how he would occasionally win, but didn't have Mo's length, and he didn't have a ton of pass rush moves. He did his thing with athleticism and high motor. Q stacks like Leo, but sheds better. He probably isn't going to have Mo's vine arms, but he is the best hand fighter to come out of college in forever. He has similar movement skills to Sheldon, though probably slightly less of a motor (still really good though). But he has the best repertoire of pass rush moves of the bunch, and insane instincts for where a play is going to go. So was Leo and his impact isn’t that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan15 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: So was Leo and his impact isn’t that great. I understand your logic and that we have holes to fill, need play makers and have a history (assigned from QB) of taking D with high draft picks over the past 10 years or so. I also get that we have take a lot of D linemen over the past past years in the 1st. But we can't shy away from a player who is clearly BPA because of position and reach for a need position. Q is clearly one of the top players if not the top player in the draft. While I too like Bosa or Allen better and would like to finally have a play maker ... passing on a low risk high impact player is not good business for a franchise that need an upgrade in talent just about anywhere and everywhere ...... Comparing Q to Leo is like comparing Darnold to Sanchez. Makes no sense are they are different players are a different time. Because Sanchez did not work out does not mean Sam won't. Because Leo is not Suh or Donald does not mean Q won't work out.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 think the theme of free agency is going to be scheme fit from an offensive stand point, no real superstar outside of Bell so I think we’ll see usbtarget guys that would fit our scheme more so than just talent. I.E. Billy Turner is a guy I think who will be high on our list as a potential starting OG and guys like Randall Cobb and Adam Humphries would appeal more to us than a guy like Golden Tate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said: I understand your logic and that we have holes to fill, need play makers and have a history (assigned from QB) of taking D with high draft picks over the past 10 years or so. I also get that we have take a lot of D linemen over the past past years in the 1st. But we can't shy away from a player who is clearly BPA because of position and reach for a need position. Q is clearly one of the top players if not the top player in the draft. While I too like Bosa or Allen better and would like to finally have a play maker ... passing on a low risk high impact player is not good business for a franchise that need an upgrade in talent just about anywhere and everywhere ...... Comparing Q to Leo is like comparing Darnold to Sanchez. Makes no sense are they are different players are a different time. Because Sanchez did not work out does not mean Sam won't. Because Leo is not Suh or Donald does not mean Q won't work out.... My point is kinda along the lines that I don’t feel any DT is worth the 3rd pick. You look around the nfl and there’s only 1 difference making DT in Donald. Yes there’s other good ones, but to use a top 3 pick on a guy that more than likely will stuff the run and get 5-10 sacks most years just doesn’t seem like a good return ina player. Like I stated Leo was viewed as the best player in that draft and plays DT and his impact is not worth his pick and he was picked at 6. This also plays into my point I’ve been making for years. Even if I play along with us adding Q...and we have this great defense... we still can’t score. At least an edge rusher is a need. DT to me is not a need at all. We have 3-4 very good options at DT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Brockers is a candidate for release. Rams would save 10 mil by cutting him. Another Gregg Williams connection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsandI Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 If Jets failed to retool the team via free agency then what would Jets do? If it was me being the owner of Jets, I would fire Mike Maccagnan and internally promote Brian Heimerdinger to GM immediately. I would expect Heimerdinger made the trade with Redskins for Alex Smith in June to help their salary problem for 2019 and 2020. In return, Jets ought to net no less than 2 round picks before the end of 2021 draft. Jets only suffer the salary headache for 2019 which is measly as Jets would have alot of cap space due to the FA failure. If Smith was healthy and ready to play fully then Jets could flip him to a team that needs his experience for a mere 4th or 5th round pick. Conclusively, Jets would have 2 2nd round picks and a mid round pick for just 2019 salary cap of Alex Smith. Not that I root for Jets to flunk FA activity but I just ponder about the future of Jets in case. umm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 14 hours ago, barnaby8787 said: Brockers is a candidate for release. Rams would save 10 mil by cutting him. Another Gregg Williams connection. A few release/late round trade candidates on my radar... Robert Quinn, DE, Miami (28) - played for both Gase and Williams and could be a nice addition at DE. Nelson Agholor, WR, Philadelphia (25) - owed nearly $10m, final year of deal, team is in cap trouble. Everson Griffen, DE, Minnesota (31) - need to dig into this given the mental troubles he faced earlier this year, but has always been a good player and could be a release candidate do to MIN cap troubles. Could be a really good additional if everything checks out. Mohamed Sanu, WR, Atlanta (29) - has always been a rock-solid #2/3, which is something the Jets can really use. Vic Beasley, EDGE, Atlanta (26) - bloated cap hit; not a great fit for the Jets but could see him as a SLB/DE hybrid. Emmanuel Sanders, WR, Denver (31) - yes coming off serious injury, but could be worth an incentive-laden contract. Jamie Collins, LB, Cleveland (29) - good fit as a hybrid SLB in this defense and has a good relationship with Gregg Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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