2019 NFL Draft Thread v.2

[roi34]

28 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Is 8-10 sacks a year enough for a top 5 pick?

If you say he is a top run defender at DE and gives us 8-10 sacks a year for  6-10 years. Probably yes. Better than some of the busts that go in top 5. 

 

People are high on Preston smith and the dude has never had more than 8 sacks.

[NightTrainLane]

3 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Is 8-10 sacks a year enough for a top 5 pick?

Yeah it is. If Ferrell is our pick at 4 and he avg 10 sacks over his 5 year rookie deal, I'm counting that as success. Because that is good production. 

Guys that went in the top 5 that are avg 8-10 sacks on rookie deals like Garrett, Chubb ( I know, one year), Bosa, Mack, Clowney (in no injury years), Ansah. Stopped there cuz that should be enough to prove the point.

We cold end up with a Dion Jordan or Dante Fowler type with 3 or 4 sacks a year instead.

[roi34]

If  Allen, bosa, and williams are both gone which id expect to be likely, I'd still be game for a trade down with qb needy team. 

Then you grab Gary or Ferrel at #6-#9 range and get better value as well as get better value elsewhere in draft by adding a RB/TE in the 2nd/3rd rounds u may have no been able to.

[BayRaider]

@big_palooka

Your a Georgia fan right? What do you think of Riley Ridley in the third? I’ve said before I’m a big fan of double dipping at WR in the 2nd and 3rd this year. There’s no great WRs but it’s a solid year of depth, this draft is full of #2 WRs from the 1st Round to the Mid 3rd imo. 

I really like Ridley as a project pick in the 3rd. I also really like Harmon with our 2nd if he stops cradling so many catches. Honestly reminds me of AJ Green. Harmon and Ridley have the potential to be a deadly duo. 

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, roi34 said:

If you say he is a top run defender at DE and gives us 8-10 sacks a year for  6-10 years. Probably yes. Better than some of the busts that go in top 5. 

 

People are high on Preston smith and the dude has never had more than 8 sacks.

Because pass rushers are hard to find. Just kidding kind of.  I really just do not want to see a team run a jet sweep right at our unblocked d-line and watch them whiff and the RB score like the Rams did week one.  I want pass rushers but I also want to stop the run.  We were ranked lower against run than the pass.  We need good players that can do both.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Dessie said:

Is 8-10 sacks a year enough for a top 5 pick?

He's also a fantastic run defender. As opposed to a guy like Polite who can bend the edge, but will be handled against the run

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said:

I don't know how I feel about that.

I think the good pash rushers use different techniques to get home. Sometimes it's bending, dipping under, bull rushing, countering olinemen sets with inside moves, or leverage plays. A lot of ways to get it done.

That was my point. Just being able to bend the edge is overrated. You have to have technique and counter ability along with play strength. 

Bending the edge has become to pass rushers what a 4.4 40 is to a WR. 

[big_palooka]

46 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

@big_palooka

Your a Georgia fan right? What do you think of Riley Ridley in the third? I’ve said before I’m a big fan of double dipping at WR in the 2nd and 3rd this year. There’s no great WRs but it’s a solid year of depth, this draft is full of #2 WRs from the 1st Round to the Mid 3rd imo. 

I really like Ridley as a project pick in the 3rd. I also really like Harmon with our 2nd if he stops cradling so many catches. Honestly reminds me of AJ Green. Harmon and Ridley have the potential to be a deadly duo. 

I think he goes in round 2. He's not a project. He's a really really good WR who was stuck in a run first offense with a small armed QB. He's got first round talent, but won't get picked up until round 2 because of his perceived lack of production. He'll be a steal in round 2.

[true2form]

30 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Because pass rushers are hard to find. Just kidding kind of.  I really just do not want to see a team run a jet sweep right at our unblocked d-line and watch them whiff and the RB score like the Rams did week one.  I want pass rushers but I also want to stop the run.  We were ranked lower against run than the pass.  We need good players that can do both.

I believe that's the kind of DE that PG wants anyway. 6-6 280 seems to be what he likes from his days in Cincy with Dunlap and Johnson.  Give him 3 or 4 guys that can all get 8-10 sacks a year is more his mo and not one guy getting 15-20. Plus they all have the size to anchor in the run game. 

Leads me to believe guys like Ferrell, Sweat, and Gary are better fits.

[BayRaider]

10 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I think he goes in round 2. He's not a project. He's a really really good WR who was stuck in a run first offense with a small armed QB. He's got first round talent, but won't get picked up until round 2 because of his perceived lack of production. He'll be a steal in round 2.

Hmmm maybe we can move up to the late 2nd if he’a still there. I do love what I see on tape. He was surrounded by a three headed RB monster and noodle arm QB. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Quinnen Williams can actually play alongside Hurst/Hall in our base defense, while Oliver probably can't. Williams is 6'4" 300 while Oliver is probably a lot closer to 6'2" 270. Oliver didn't live up to the preseason hype and actually regressed this past season. The guys at the draft network said if they had never heard of Oliver and were judging him based solely on this year's tape they'd give him a 2nd round grade.

First you're making assumptions about a players size when you have no clue, most sites I look on have him listed around 6'3 290 which is very similar to Williams.  Secondly Oliver had been playing with a lingering knee issue for the majority of last season. 

Oliver was on a Houston team that had zero talent, was always double teamed and still dominated.  Williams appears to be a very good player also but he had multiple NFL prospects playing around him making his matchups much easier.  Oliver was considered to be the number 1 overall pick, ahead of Bosa, before the season started because he was clearly so dominant in 2017.  You can't just write that off.

The differences between Oliver and Williams that you're assuming to be true clearly are incorrect.  You're assuming that he is 1 inch shorter than listed, 20lbs smaller than listed and is a liability in the run game which is clearly not the case.  Watch a healthy Oliver play in 2017, the guy is a flat out elite talented stud which is something we need on this team.  The only thing stopping Oliver from being an annual pro bowler is Oliver himself. 

[BayRaider]

38 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

First you're making assumptions about a players size when you have no clue, most sites I look on have him listed around 6'3 290 which is very similar to Williams.  Secondly Oliver had been playing with a lingering knee issue for the majority of last season. 

Oliver was on a Houston team that had zero talent, was always double teamed and still dominated.  Williams appears to be a very good player also but he had multiple NFL prospects playing around him making his matchups much easier.  Oliver was considered to be the number 1 overall pick, ahead of Bosa, before the season started because he was clearly so dominant in 2017.  You can't just write that off.

The differences between Oliver and Williams that you're assuming to be true clearly are incorrect.  You're assuming that he is 1 inch shorter than listed, 20lbs smaller than listed and is a liability in the run game which is clearly not the case.  Watch a healthy Oliver play in 2017, the guy is a flat out elite talented stud which is something we need on this team.  The only thing stopping Oliver from being an annual pro bowler is Oliver himself. 

Oliver is 270 6’2”. There were reports that came out a long time ago all these sites have the incorrect information (easily can happen since they all copy one another). Just look at Oliver and Williams. Williams look way bigger. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

10 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Oliver is 270 6’2”. There were reports that came out a long time ago all these sites have the incorrect information (easily can happen since they all copy one another). Just look at Oliver and Williams. Williams look way bigger. 

By looking way bigger do you mean looking fatter?  I'll agree with that.

[Rich7sena]

4 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

I don't know how I feel about that.

I think the good pash rushers use different techniques to get home. Sometimes it's bending, dipping under, bull rushing, countering olinemen sets with inside moves, or leverage plays. A lot of ways to get it done.

But bending the edge is seen as determinative as to whether a pass rusher will be good in the NFL by a lot of online scouts. Just look at a guy like Khalil Mack and Demarcus Lawrence win: going through guys instead of around. I'd say that the most consistent trait seen in the top rushers in the NFL today is converting speed to power.

Bending the edge is more important for guys who lack the power to get tackles off balance with a stab or bull rush.

4 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Bending the edge imo is a key finishing move for a de. You have to be able to dip your shoulder and get around the ots’s outstretched arms. As a team who has low sack #’s if I’m getting a guy at #4 he better be the total package.

Clowney has 4.5 speed to help overcome his lack of bending ability. Clelin doesn’t 

I'd agree with the first part of your argument based on what I wrote about with respect to quick, faster players who don't have much power to their game. That said, guys who have both tend to be the elite of the elite and its why Josh Allen had such a meteoric rise in the college post-season.

I also tend to agree with your take on Ferrell in that he's not twitchy or explosive enough to fully overcome his lack of ability to bend the edge. That's not to say I don't think he's a first-round pick or will be a bad NFL player, I just think his path to becoming a player worthy of top 5 consideration (All-Pro caliber) is tougher to see without those elite physical traits.

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

First you're making assumptions about a players size when you have no clue, most sites I look on have him listed around 6'3 290 which is very similar to Williams.  Secondly Oliver had been playing with a lingering knee issue for the majority of last season. 

Oliver was on a Houston team that had zero talent, was always double teamed and still dominated.  Williams appears to be a very good player also but he had multiple NFL prospects playing around him making his matchups much easier.  Oliver was considered to be the number 1 overall pick, ahead of Bosa, before the season started because he was clearly so dominant in 2017.  You can't just write that off.

The differences between Oliver and Williams that you're assuming to be true clearly are incorrect.  You're assuming that he is 1 inch shorter than listed, 20lbs smaller than listed and is a liability in the run game which is clearly not the case.  Watch a healthy Oliver play in 2017, the guy is a flat out elite talented stud which is something we need on this team.  The only thing stopping Oliver from being an annual pro bowler is Oliver himself. 

The combine is in a couple of weeks, I guarantee you that he's not showing up at 290 pounds. Williams is a much, much bigger man than Oliver. Oliver was also playing against some of the worst competition in college football and regressed this season, knee injury or not. Who cares what he was projected to be before the season, there's a reason that the majority of the draft media is wavering on him right now. Oliver has the potential to be a good player but he'll need to be in the right scheme and can only play 1 role in the NFL. Williams can play alongside virtually anyone and be effective.