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2019 NFL Draft Thread v.2


Totty

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5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The combine is in a couple of weeks, I guarantee you that he's not showing up at 290 pounds. Williams is a much, much bigger man than Oliver. Oliver was also playing against some of the worst competition in college football and regressed this season, knee injury or not. Who cares what he was projected to be before the season, there's a reason that the majority of the draft media is wavering on him right now. Oliver has the potential to be a good player but he'll need to be in the right scheme and can only play 1 role in the NFL. Williams can play alongside virtually anyone and be effective. 

You ask who cares where a player was projected to be drafted before the season?  The guy was in the conversation to be the first overall pick in the draft according to many "experts" and you want to dismiss that?  Doesn't that speak for the guys elite talent and ability to dominate?  I am not on here to debate who will be the better player between Williams and Oliver as I think they are both very good talents who project to be very good players on the NFL level.  My point is that saying Williams is a player to consider taking at 4 and dismissing Oliver at that same level is downright foolish. What is more foolish is listening to the talking head idiots in the draft media for information.  I can post multiple "draft experts" that have Oliver as a top 3 prospect in the draft class. 

If your knocks on Oliver are that he is 10 or 15 pounds lighter than Williams therefor he isn't stout against the run, is scheme dependent or he can only play 1 role in the NFL is an uneducated statement.  I think he is a tweener in terms of size but his skillset will allow him to be productive as both a 3T and DE in a similar fashion to Aaron Donald.  I'm also not saying that he the caliber of dominant player Donald is but for arguments sake lets just say that only plays 3T and is an annual pro bowler at that position, would you not want him on this team? I certainly would as we have had zero interior pass rush for 20 plus years.  

Watch some game film of his 2017 season and tell me what you think, don't just rely on media fools to dictate your view on players.  I think you have been reading Walter Football with your analysis of Oliver bc your knocks on him seem very similar to what that shill writes LOL 

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14 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

But bending the edge is seen as determinative as to whether a pass rusher will be good in the NFL by a lot of online scouts. Just look at a guy like Khalil Mack and Demarcus Lawrence win: going through guys instead of around. I'd say that the most consistent trait seen in the top rushers in the NFL today is converting speed to power.

Bending the edge is more important for guys who lack the power to get tackles off balance with a stab or bull rush.

I'd agree with the first part of your argument based on what I wrote about with respect to quick, faster players who don't have much power to their game. That said, guys who have both tend to be the elite of the elite and its why Josh Allen had such a meteoric rise in the college post-season.

I also tend to agree with your take on Ferrell in that he's not twitchy or explosive enough to fully overcome his lack of ability to bend the edge. That's not to say I don't think he's a first-round pick or will be a bad NFL player, I just think his path to becoming a player worthy of top 5 consideration (All-Pro caliber) is tougher to see without those elite physical traits.

Khalil Mack can bend, get skinny, spin, bull rush the whole nine...

penn raved about how Mack’s bend made him almost impossible to block

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1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Khalil Mack can bend, get skinny, spin, bull rush the whole nine...

penn raved about how Mack’s bend made him almost impossible to block

Mack's bread and butter is converting speed to power. He rarely wins by purely bending the edge and he almost never spins.

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6 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Mack's bread and butter is converting speed to power. He rarely wins by purely bending the edge and he almost never spins.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2016/08/05/raiders-notes-battles-line-will-make-team-better/      

“It was time to examine what left tackle Donald Penn could’ve done to prevent Khalil Mack blowing past him for a sack.

“Donald,” Tice ultimately said, “I don’t have anything for you.”

To hear Tice explain the play, you understand why some of what Mack does isn’t defendable.

“(Mack) bends, he’s about this far from the ground,” Tice said, placing his hand about a foot high. “He just slips under Donald’s hands.

“What am I going to tell him? ‘Bend down there with him.’ It was unbelievable. We like working against those guys. It’s going to make us better.”

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12 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

If your knocks on Oliver are that he is 10 or 15 pounds lighter than Williams therefor he isn't stout against the run, is scheme dependent or he can only play 1 role in the NFL is an uneducated statement.  I think he is a tweener in terms of size but his skillset will allow him to be productive as both a 3T and DE in a similar fashion to Aaron Donald.  I'm also not saying that he the caliber of dominant player Donald is but for arguments sake lets just say that only plays 3T and is an annual pro bowler at that position, would you not want him on this team? I certainly would as we have had zero interior pass rush for 20 plus years.  

3

I've stated many times, I think that Quinnen Williams can play next to Hurst/Hall in our base defense, that's why I'd be okay with drafting him at #4. I don't think that Oliver can be effective playing next to Hurst, who is a very similar player as an undersized 3T. Considering the number of holes that we have across the board, it would be foolish to draft someone that doesn't fit with two guys that we invested in, in the draft last year. Not to mention, I think Williams will be a better player in the league than Oliver. 

 

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20 hours ago, big_palooka said:

He's also a fantastic run defender. As opposed to a guy like Polite who can bend the edge, but will be handled against the run

Ferrell doesn't have the ceiling of some of the other pass rushers in this class but he definitely has one of the higher floors. 

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4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Ferrell doesn't have the ceiling of some of the other pass rushers in this class but he definitely has one of the higher floors. 

Exactly, we are in no position to gamble at #4. If the big 3 are gone we go Ferrell, White, or completely fine with a trade down. 

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1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Exactly, we are in no position to gamble at #4. If the big 3 are gone we go Ferrell, White, or completely fine with a trade down. 

We can probably trade down and still draft Ferrell. If Bosa, Allen, and Williams are off the board, I'm actually praying that we do trade down and add another 2nd round pick.

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29 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We can probably trade down and still draft Ferrell. If Bosa, Allen, and Williams are off the board, I'm actually praying that we do trade down and add another 2nd round pick.

That would be best case scenario. Grab Ferrell at #7 and someone gives up a 2nd. Get two starting WRs in the 2nd Round between AJ Brown, Kelvin Harmon, Riley Ridley, and Deebo Samuel. Whatever two are there. 

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33 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 I’m starting to think Washington will trade with us to pick up a QB.  Call it a gut feeling 

To move back to 15. I hope we are getting 2 firsts and 2 seconds. Whats the "trade chart" say?

Who do you target at 15? Hope Ferrell or Sweat is there? 

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12 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

To move back to 15. I hope we are getting 2 firsts and 2 seconds. Whats the "trade chart" say?

Who do you target at 15? Hope Ferrell or Sweat is there? 

Doubt Ferrell will be there at 15 but Sweat probably will be and I do like him as well. As someone else said, if we are moving from 4 to 15 we better get a 1st AND 2nd. I expect more of a minor move back to 6-7 and pick up a 2nd Rounder. 

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7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Doubt Ferrell will be there at 15 but Sweat probably will be and I do like him as well. As someone else said, if we are moving from 4 to 15 we better get a 1st AND 2nd. I expect more of a minor move back to 6-7 and pick up a 2nd Rounder. 

I think there is a decent chance that Ferrell, White, or Sweat is there at 15.  If not maybe a WR or another trade back.  I wouldn’t mind Murphy or Greedy either.  Pretty decent talent in the first round this draft.

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8 minutes ago, daineraider said:

I think there is a decent chance that Ferrell, White, or Sweat is there at 15.  If not maybe a WR or another trade back.  I wouldn’t mind Murphy or Greedy either.  Pretty decent talent in the first round this draft.

15 would be a very good spot in this draft. Picks 4-28ish honestly are not super far apart in talent. Crazy equally talented 1st Round class here. 

I’m expecting to move to pick 7 or so though. Jags jumping over the Giants for a QB. 

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3 hours ago, OG_C2X said:

To move back to 15. I hope we are getting 2 firsts and 2 seconds. Whats the "trade chart" say?

Who do you target at 15? Hope Ferrell or Sweat is there? 

750 points which would be 15, 46 , and a late first next year.  So the numbers work out because they would pay a premium to move up in the top 4 to draft the first QB in that scenario. At 15 who knows who would still be around.  White, Gary, Ferrell , or Sweat.  You could also go O-line at that spot if Williams and Ford are still there or even another trade back if the defensive guys are not there.  Would have been a great spot for Simmons if he had not torn his ACL.

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