Rank your 2017 starting QBs

[Crickett]

5 hours ago, Ward4HOF said:

Now, stats are not everything, but after 3 years, they sure do provide one heck of a trend analysis point. And this isn't something I am attempting to debate; I simply would love to know what your rationale was, that's all.

I have Ben at #12 for the same reason I have Andrew Luck at #13.  It's a cliche, but the best ability is availability.  While Ben still has the skills to be an elite quarterback, his body is breaking down and he knows it. As far as I can tell, that is why Ben is contemplating retirement.  He's constantly hurt.  Despite having a top three offensive line, it's almost an inevitability that he is going to miss some time this season due to injury as he has the last two.  I do try to take into account the ability for a quarterback to stay healthy and if I don't think you can, I can't just ignore that.  I had Charger fans ask me the same question last year about Keenan Allen and my receiver ranks.  After missing yet another season due to injury, I don't think he was even a consideration for most top fifteen WR ranks.  Rivers on the other hand hasn't missed a game AFAIK in over a decade. 

 

I also take into account surrounding case. Ben has been handing it off to a top two NFL running back behind a top two NFL offensive line and throwing it to a top two NFL wide receiver.  Rivers regularly loses half his team to injury including his top receiving options and many of his linemen. 

[Hunter2_1]

11 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I think Tom Brady is the best QB of all time..........probably.

However, he clearly isn't the top QB in the league at this moment in time. That's no slight on Brady, just the way of the world and father time. He's been the best but as of right now he isn't and he isn't getting better past this point. It will be very interesting to revisit the rankings later in the season with more information to judge, Rodgers looks the clear #1 at this point in time.

 

Well he was easily the best last season, and the game before last, he completed the best comeback ever seen in any game, let alone the big one. 

So is the above based off one game (the Chiefs game)? If so, are we now basing opinions of players on one single game? 

[indifference]

1. Jamies Winston (MVP)

2. Aaron Rodgers

3. Teflon Tom Brady

4. Drew Brees

5. Big Ben

6. Derek Carr

7. Matt Ryan

8. Russell Wilson

9. Phillip Rivers

10. Andrew Luck

 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Well he was easily the best last season, and the game before last, he completed the best comeback ever seen in any game, let alone the big one. 

So is the above based off one game (the Chiefs game)? If so, are we now basing opinions of players on one single game? 

I don't think he was easily the best last season, the Patriots were the best team and he was a very important part of that but I thought Rodgers was better last year aswell. Patriots with Rodgers last year wouldn't have been in the situation where they were 28-3 down, Brady was pretty poor in the first half though he did play a massive role in the greatest comeback ever (though not the only role of course as you're suggesting). Brady was probably the most efficient QB last year but Rodgers was the more complete QB IMHO (I don't really like either guy if I'm honest so I have no favourite there) and Matt Ryan was also probably a better overall player last year. As I said, it's no slight on Brady as he's been the best but father time catches up and he wasn't even at his own peak last year from what I saw despite his sublime efficiency.

 

[Iamcanadian]

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Well he was easily the best last season, and the game before last, he completed the best comeback ever seen in any game, let alone the big one. 

So is the above based off one game (the Chiefs game)? If so, are we now basing opinions of players on one single game? 

I have to agree with you. Brady was far superior to Rodgers last year and he does it with receivers  that are average at best. To write him off after winning a SB is rather foolish IMO, yes, he may slip this year, but so far, that is just wishful thinking by non NE fans. Until somebody actually dethrones him, he is still king of the mountain!!!

[Hunter2_1]

10 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I don't think he was easily the best last season, the Patriots were the best team and he was a very important part of that but I thought Rodgers was better last year aswell. Patriots with Rodgers last year wouldn't have been in the situation where they were 28-3 down, Brady was pretty poor in the first half though he did play a massive role in the greatest comeback ever (though not the only role of course as you're suggesting). Brady was probably the most efficient QB last year but Rodgers was the more complete QB IMHO (I don't really like either guy if I'm honest so I have no favourite there) and Matt Ryan was also probably a better overall player last year. As I said, it's no slight on Brady as he's been the best but father time catches up and he wasn't even at his own peak last year from what I saw despite his sublime efficiency.

 

Brady was poor in the Super Bowl right until the end.

As for the season, he broke PFF charts for what it meant to have a good season as a QB. Brady dominated the grading in every major situation last season. In PFF’s play-by-play grading, he sits atop the list when pressured, against no pressure, against the blitz, against no blitz, on third down, and on intermediate (10-19 yard) throws where he is dominating the field and has a 152.2 passer rating (a perfect passer rating is 158.3). 28TD to 2 Int is ridiculous, as well. Release was quicker than ever, his deep balls were more accurate that they've ever been.
 

It was arguably his greatest ever season. I'm just not sure what more he has to do to be considered the best around here. I like what @Non-Issue has said though; if you don't consider him the best now, you never will. That's your prerogative. 

[Darbsk]

43 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Brady was poor in the Super Bowl right until the end.

As for the season, he broke PFF charts for what it meant to have a good season as a QB. Brady dominated the grading in every major situation last season. In PFF’s play-by-play grading, he sits atop the list when pressured, against no pressure, against the blitz, against no blitz, on third down, and on intermediate (10-19 yard) throws where he is dominating the field and has a 152.2 passer rating (a perfect passer rating is 158.3). 28TD to 2 Int is ridiculous, as well. Release was quicker than ever, his deep balls were more accurate that they've ever been.
 

It was arguably his greatest ever season. I'm just not sure what more he has to do to be considered the best around here. I like what @Non-Issue has said though; if you don't consider him the best now, you never will. That's your prerogative. 

I guess I just put a lot less stock in PFF than you then, we just have a difference of opinion and that is fine. I think Rodgers was better and is better last year and this, stats are all well and good but if you'd asked me last year who I would want to QB my team, my answer would have been Rodgers and that's how I think about it. I just found it strange that you seemed so offended that somebody thought that anyone outside Brady could even be considered the best,  I don't dislike the Patriots at all, have actually liked them from the times of Andre Tippett onward so I've no axe to grind, just enjoy watching good football, whoever's playing. He was the best I've seen but he's not the best at this moment in time.

[TENINCH]

Top 5 for QB's that wear sleeves imo

[Ward4HOF]

On 9/14/2017 at 11:27 AM, Crickett said:

I have Ben at #12 for the same reason I have Andrew Luck at #13.  It's a cliche, but the best ability is availability.  While Ben still has the skills to be an elite quarterback, his body is breaking down and he knows it. As far as I can tell, that is why Ben is contemplating retirement.  He's constantly hurt.  Despite having a top three offensive line, it's almost an inevitability that he is going to miss some time this season due to injury as he has the last two.  I do try to take into account the ability for a quarterback to stay healthy and if I don't think you can, I can't just ignore that.  I had Charger fans ask me the same question last year about Keenan Allen and my receiver ranks.  After missing yet another season due to injury, I don't think he was even a consideration for most top fifteen WR ranks.  Rivers on the other hand hasn't missed a game AFAIK in over a decade. 

 

I also take into account surrounding case. Ben has been handing it off to a top two NFL running back behind a top two NFL offensive line and throwing it to a top two NFL wide receiver.  Rivers regularly loses half his team to injury including his top receiving options and many of his linemen. 

Quote

1. Julio Jones 
2. Antonio Brown 
3. Mike Evans 
4. Odell Beckham Jr. 
5. Jordy Nelson 

That would be your list your top 5 WR list from Jun...at least your consistent...NOT...I mean, it's not like Julio didn't miss two games last year due to injury, had ankle surgery in Mar and, missed 11 games in 2013, and had the League MVP throwing to him, as opposed to the oft-injured, #12 QB in the league throwing to him...that's your problem though, where 99% of the population believes...the QB makes the WR...in your world, the WR makes the QB...Ben was nothing before Brown and Bell...oh wait...But alas, I said I wouldn't debate...

...except for this--Ben lost 40% of his starting OL in early 2015, his star RB?? Yeah, him too for 10 games in 2015, and 4 in 2016. How about Bryant last year...Nope??  Their starting TE, that well, never started??...so you want to try that excuse for Ben, again???

 

 

[Crickett]

3 hours ago, Ward4HOF said:

That would be your list your top 5 WR list from Jun...at least your consistent...NOT...I mean, it's not like Julio didn't miss two games last year due to injury, had ankle surgery in Mar and, missed 11 games in 2013, and had the League MVP throwing to him, as opposed to the oft-injured, #12 QB in the league throwing to him...that's your problem though, where 99% of the population believes...the QB makes the WR...in your world, the WR makes the QB...Ben was nothing before Brown and Bell...oh wait...But alas, I said I wouldn't debate...

...except for this--Ben lost 40% of his starting OL in early 2015, his star RB?? Yeah, him too for 10 games in 2015, and 4 in 2016. How about Bryant last year...Nope??  Their starting TE, that well, never started??...so you want to try that excuse for Ben, again???

 

1. So to you missing three games in the last three years = body is breaking down (like Ben) or finding oneself on season ending injured reserve year after year (like Allen)? I thought I was supposed to be the one trolling here.  Don't worry though, assuming he is still in the league next year, I'll be sure to give Ben a much more appropriate rank then, just like I did for A.J. Green on the receiver list you quoted. 

2. Are you seriously trying to compare the Steelers injury list to the Chargers?  Every team loses someone.  Few teams lose metaphorically everybody.

3. Okay, I have to say Ward4HOF.  You've certainly convinced me that Ben hasn't had quality receivers to throw to before Antonio Brown, Ward4HOF.  It's a shame Ben didn't have better targets to throw to early in his career, Ward4HOF.  Even one good WR might have made the difference between two lombardis and four, Ward4HOF.

Seriously though.  Aside from a few missteps such as Limas Sweed and Sammie Coates, the Steelers have done an amazing job finding Ben quality targets to throw to for most of his career.

But while surrounding cast plays.a role, My expectation that Ben getting hurt again was the main reason I ranked him so low.

IIRC, last year I had Sammy Watkins #10 on my receiver list.  He was hurt in 2015, but I didn't see it as a trend.  After getting hurt again in 2016, I believe I left him off my list in 2017.  If Julio misses significant time this year, it's a good bet he would not be #1 on my list next year.

[everlong]

Exluding Watson and Kizer.

1. Tom Brady

2. Aaron Rodgers

3. Drew Brees

4. Matt Ryan

5. Ben Roethlisberger

6. Matt Stafford

7. Dak Prescott

8. Derek Carr

9. Russell Wilson

10. Marcus Mariota

11. Jameis Winston

12. Kirk Cousins

13. Sam Bradford

14. Joe Flacco

15. Carson Wentz

16. Cam Newton

17. Alex Smith

18. Philip Rivers

19. Eli Manning

20. Trevor Siemian

21. Tyrod Taylor

22. Jay Cutler

23. Carson Palmer

24. Andy Dalton

25. Blake Bortles

26. Mike Glennon

27. Brian Hoyer

28. Josh McCown - 

[jjab360]

13 hours ago, everlong said:

Exluding Watson and Kizer.

1. Tom Brady

2. Aaron Rodgers

3. Drew Brees

4. Matt Ryan

5. Ben Roethlisberger

6. Matt Stafford

7. Dak Prescott

8. Derek Carr

9. Russell Wilson

10. Marcus Mariota

11. Jameis Winston

12. Kirk Cousins

13. Sam Bradford

14. Joe Flacco

15. Carson Wentz

16. Cam Newton

17. Alex Smith

18. Philip Rivers

19. Eli Manning

20. Trevor Siemian

21. Tyrod Taylor

22. Jay Cutler

23. Carson Palmer

24. Andy Dalton

25. Blake Bortles

26. Mike Glennon

27. Brian Hoyer

28. Josh McCown - 

No Goff?

[everlong]

4 hours ago, jjab360 said:

No Goff?

Eh, add him to the unknown category with Kizer and Watson. If McVay is the real deal as I think he is, Goff is #19.

[Iamcanadian]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:35 AM, Darbsk said:

I guess I just put a lot less stock in PFF than you then, we just have a difference of opinion and that is fine. I think Rodgers was better and is better last year and this, stats are all well and good but if you'd asked me last year who I would want to QB my team, my answer would have been Rodgers and that's how I think about it. I just found it strange that you seemed so offended that somebody thought that anyone outside Brady could even be considered the best,  I don't dislike the Patriots at all, have actually liked them from the times of Andre Tippett onward so I've no axe to grind, just enjoy watching good football, whoever's playing. He was the best I've seen but he's not the best at this moment in time.

So, if Rodgers is the better talent, how come he only has 1 SB win??? Brady is the greatest clutch player I have ever seen in my 65 years of following the game, his teams have been just as banged up during the playoffs as many other teams including the Packers and his WR outside of one season, have very average talent at best, yet he wins, wins and wins. Rodgers for all his talent, simply does not get the job done as consistently as Brady, or he would have the SB rings to show it.

I don't even think it is a contest. Brady gets the job done and when he actually has a healthy star at receiver, he is sensational beyond words and practically unbeatable. Take out the miracle  catch by a Giant's receiver and he has even another SB ring???? It is no contest IMO and I am not a NE fan.

[ASmithFan1010]

Top 10 (at the end of the year)

1. Ryan

2. Brady

3. Rodgers

4. Carr

5. Brees

6. Ben

7. Mariota

8. Wilson

9. Dak

10.  Cousins