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Howard and run game


dll2000

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We had a lot of discussions about Howard not being a fit or Bears struggling running game this season.

I think last game and recent play shows that Howard is still a good back, but hasn't been used to his strengths until recently.

Nagy to his credit is figuring it out. I really like that they used some FB action for Howard.  Getting outside his run game box. 

I think he needs to run RPO's out of power (block down and guard pulls and leads inside) with Howard.  It would work great with Bears athletic guards. This has become a recent staple of this offense for coaches who have been running these plays for decades and it works and blends really, really well.  I wish I had his ear. Sounds pompous because I am nobody, but I really think this one addition that would radically help this offense so much.  

This is not outside the box thinking, this is the evolution that has happened elsewhere in football world running these plays that compliment each other (lower levels).  NFL (Reid mostly) adaped Chip Kelly O with Walsh West Coast Offense concepts and it has worked brilliantly. But they took what Kelly was doing as he tried to adapt his O to NFL so it's still an evolving thing that they are relatively new at.  But I love how offense is back in NFL. It isnt just rule changes that has resulted in more scoring, it is these new schemes that NFL disdained before Kelly. NFL O had gotten predictable because QB had become a total non factor in run game and there was little deception or option in plays.

I don't have to be Nostradamus to tell you RPO out of power will be next staple because Florida HS football coaches already figured this out.  Coach at Loyala HS, Holecek who played for Bills I believe, in Chicago runs this brilliantly too. Not to level FL is becuase they play Spring ball too, but still. I saw him do it 4 years ago, probably still is.  Just because they are hs coaches doesnt mean they aren't brilliant and innovative.  These guys eat and sleep football and attend every clinic.  You have to swallow your ego and arrogance and be able to look at what these guys may be doing that could work for you.

 

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On the topic of Howard running, SportsMockery actually had a pretty decent article today

https://sportsmockery.com/2019/01/jordan-howard-was-saved-when-matt-nagy-fixed-problem-he-created/?fbclid=IwAR2zU2fwVw1iT3dGr97PMqhja1K6sL7QNaK7EE9_kdjOOzQ0Fggp68TTWjs

 

“According to Pro Football Focus, Howard averaged 2.9 yards per carry on gap-scheme runs this season, compared to 4.1 yards per carry when running zone.

As the season went on, Nagy seemed to realize the issue and correct it.

Over the first eight weeks of the season, Howard ran zone on 58.9 percent of his rushes, according to PFF. From Weeks 9-17, his runs were 74.3 percent zone.

Across the final four games of the year, over 84 percent of Howard’s carries were zone runs.

It was most clear in Week 17, when PFF charted him with two gap scheme runs compared to 20 zone carries, including his longest rush of the season.”

It would seem much of the problem was running a power running scheme, rather than zone blocking schemes within which Howard has historically been the most successful.... It bears some watching going forward with Howard, Nagy's scheme as designed (apparently with more power run blocking), and our offensive linemen draft choices (which I'd argue might favor a zone scheme more, at least along the interior).

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25 minutes ago, Epyon said:

On the topic of Howard running, SportsMockery actually had a pretty decent article today

https://sportsmockery.com/2019/01/jordan-howard-was-saved-when-matt-nagy-fixed-problem-he-created/?fbclid=IwAR2zU2fwVw1iT3dGr97PMqhja1K6sL7QNaK7EE9_kdjOOzQ0Fggp68TTWjs

 

“According to Pro Football Focus, Howard averaged 2.9 yards per carry on gap-scheme runs this season, compared to 4.1 yards per carry when running zone.

As the season went on, Nagy seemed to realize the issue and correct it.

Over the first eight weeks of the season, Howard ran zone on 58.9 percent of his rushes, according to PFF. From Weeks 9-17, his runs were 74.3 percent zone.

Across the final four games of the year, over 84 percent of Howard’s carries were zone runs.

It was most clear in Week 17, when PFF charted him with two gap scheme runs compared to 20 zone carries, including his longest rush of the season.”

It would seem much of the problem was running a power running scheme, rather than zone blocking schemes within which Howard has historically been the most successful.... It bears some watching going forward with Howard, Nagy's scheme as designed (apparently with more power run blocking), and our offensive linemen draft choices (which I'd argue might favor a zone scheme more, at least along the interior).

Score a HUGE bonus point for Nagy for being able to adjust his offense to maximize placing his players in the best position to be successful.

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2 hours ago, 51to54 said:

Score a HUGE bonus point for Nagy for being able to adjust his offense to maximize placing his players in the best position to be successful.

Amen. It says a lot when a coach will be able to check his ego for the better of the team.

 

2 hours ago, Epyon said:

It would seem much of the problem was running a power running scheme, rather than zone blocking schemes within which Howard has historically been the most successful.... It bears some watching going forward with Howard, Nagy's scheme as designed (apparently with more power run blocking), and our offensive linemen draft choices (which I'd argue might favor a zone scheme more, at least along the interior).

I said way earlier in the season that our OL isn't a proper fit for the power scheme as well as they are for a zone scheme. We have great athletes almost across the line, but only 1-2 real power guys. They can move and stick to defenders, but the push simply isn't like the Bears could generate in their last Super Bowl run. It isn't even debatable IMO. Now future picks may change that, but so far we are a better fit for zone.

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It could really just be as simple as it being the scheme he was most familiar running with/from, particularly with the success they had doing it. Possibly Helfrich too, though I thought that Oregon under Chip/Helfrich did more zone based concepts.

I'd be curious to see the similar numbers for when Cohen was getting his yardage. It might be completely contrary to actual data, and a result of Howard just struggling by comparison early, then gaining steam down the stretch, but I feel like Tarik Cohen was running his best early in the year, and struggled more as we apparently shifted towards the zone concepts.  Anyone with PFF subscription that can look that up for comparison's sake?

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8 hours ago, Pool said:

Glad they made the switch. Can someone who get's the X's and O's parts of the game explain why it took Nagy so long to adjust? Is there a disadvantage to zone that I don't know about?

Zone starts slow and back is reading a defender (best) or just relying on instinct looking for a seam to develop, RB is timing steps with OL so OL can work their doubles to second level.  It's a double edge sword because it usually gets a hat on a hat and puts front in a bind, but also gives secondary time to rally.  In NFL secondary players are really fast and defense can always bring more players than you have blockers. 

Some RPO, power, draw, traps, you have to get upfield immediately and bowl people over or make people miss. But advantage is it happens faster and if secondary cheats they can burned on RPO or play action.  A lot of RPOs are run out of zone too. 

Most any blocking scheme of any type is some type of zone concept or has it built in at some point in the play.  It has to be because defenders can switch positions or gaps and O line can't chase.  Think defending in basketball, but you can't go under or over or through a pick in football as an OL so you have no choice but to play zone. 

Ideally you want dline handled and then come off to second level getting hat on hats across board. 

OL is really hard to get good at.  Why those guys are typically smart.

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14 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

James Daniels is legit.

The interior OL has gotten better each week as Daniels and Witzmann have improved. With Long back they took a huge step.

Another killer draft for Ryan “Executive of the Year” Pace

James Daniel was a first round talent.  Rare top athlete playing on oline.

He is good and will be great if he has desire. 

Really good draft for interior oline.  

 

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15 hours ago, Epyon said:

It could really just be as simple as it being the scheme he was most familiar running with/from, particularly with the success they had doing it. Possibly Helfrich too, though I thought that Oregon under Chip/Helfrich did more zone based concepts.

I'd be curious to see the similar numbers for when Cohen was getting his yardage. It might be completely contrary to actual data, and a result of Howard just struggling by comparison early, then gaining steam down the stretch, but I feel like Tarik Cohen was running his best early in the year, and struggled more as we apparently shifted towards the zone concepts.  Anyone with PFF subscription that can look that up for comparison's sake?

Grasu came from Oregon and was an effective power five center in Oregon's scheme and could not block a lick in the NFL because he consistently got pushed way upfield by any defender bigger than a safety.

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7 hours ago, dll2000 said:

James Daniel was a first round talent.  Rare top athlete playing on oline.

He is good and will be great if he has desire. 

Really good draft for interior oline.  

 

He's one of the two 'gravy' picks I referenced discussing our 2018-19 effective drafts (and trades) into great territory with Mack, Miller (and Trubisky of course)  acquired. Anybody else that managed to even start, much the less become a quality starter was gravy. Looks like we are getting some gravy that you could build a meal around.

A talent acquisition period that you can sustain a franchise on for several years in the NFL, especially when 3 of them are on rookie deals.

 

 

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