Fl0nkerton Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Will depend how the players test obviously, if they are equal you either lean positional value or need. But If White grades as an elite prospect and Deionte very good, give me the elite one. Gonna throw some gifs under this. I could warm up to it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Anonymous Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, jleisher said: I know Parris Campbell is becoming a favorite on this site, but what a about Andy Isabella from UMass in round 5 or lower? Isabella stats for 2018 seem pretty darn good, 1698 yrds, 13 TD with 16.6 avg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, GHARMON9 said: Hes a difference maker. Unlike most people here I think LB is extremely important. He can do it all Pretty much every NFL team thinks you're wrong. Off-ball LB is one of the poorest paid positions in the NFL (RB and SS are only worse paid one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, rcon14 said: Pretty much every NFL team thinks you're wrong. Off-ball LB is one of the poorest paid positions in the NFL (RB and SS are only worse paid one). And yet we've had 7 off ball LBs go in the 1st round of the last 2 drafts. If they are great talents, they will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, JBURGE said: And yet we've had 7 off ball LBs go in the 1st round of the last 2 drafts. If they are great talents, they will go. We've also seen RBs go in the top 5 in recent drafts but that still is a stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, rcon14 said: 2 minutes ago, JBURGE said: And yet we've had 7 off ball LBs go in the 1st round of the last 2 drafts. If they are great talents, they will go. We've also seen RBs go in the top 5 in recent drafts but that still is a stupid idea. Is it stupid? Barkley and Zeke have both had significant effects on their team. Personally I liked a QB (Darnold) or Ramsey instead, but there is an argument to be made that an elite RB has a huge effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, JBURGE said: Is it stupid? Barkley and Zeke have both had significant effects on their team. Personally I liked a QB (Darnold) or Ramsey instead, but there is an argument to be made that an elite RB has a huge effect Barkley, one of the best RBs in the entire league, perhaps the best, was 9th in yards-per-carry. He also added value in the passing game to be sure, but RBs are more complementary passing pieces than focal points. He also had the 6th highest cap hit amongst RBs in 2018. The value of the draft is that you can get impactful talent at below market rate. The Giants instead drafted a non-premium position, that doesn't really matter, and then they paid market rate for it. Runningbacks don't really matter. Want a good running game? Get a great offensive line. And even then, running the football doesn't really matter: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/long-drives-and-running-game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, GHARMON9 said: Hes a difference maker. Unlike most people here I think LB is extremely important. He can do it all I like White, but I can't pull the trigger at 12 unless there is no top EDGE guy left. I'd rather use the 32 pick on a guy like Mack Wilson or our 2nd on Devin Bush if we are looking at ILB. Personally, if it all falls well on the board, I'd love walking away with a No. 12 EDGE, and then a combo of a shifty WR (Brown/Campbell for example) plus an ILB (Wilson/Bush for example) with our first 3 picks. Then pluck an OL or two in the 3rd and 4th (2 picks). We've always had better success finding those mid-round OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, rcon14 said: Barkley, one of the best RBs in the entire league, perhaps the best, was 9th in yards-per-carry. He also added value in the passing game to be sure, but RBs are more complementary passing pieces than focal points. He also had the 6th highest cap hit amongst RBs in 2018. The value of the draft is that you can get impactful talent at below market rate. The Giants instead drafted a non-premium position, that doesn't really matter, and then they paid market rate for it. Runningbacks don't really matter. Want a good running game? Get a great offensive line. And even then, running the football doesn't really matter: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/long-drives-and-running-game I would not take a RB that early unless he was far and away the best prospect. Running backs don't really matter? I think you can get better value with backs in the 2nd/3rd round usually, but they certainly do matter. The value of the draft is getting impact players at below market value? This is one advantage of the draft, not the only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, JBURGE said: I would not take a RB that early unless he was far and away the best prospect. Running backs don't really matter? I think you can get better value with backs in the 2nd/3rd round usually, but they certainly do matter. The value of the draft is getting impact players at below market value? This is one advantage of the draft, not the only. A: You should never because they are never the best prospect because their position has such little impact B: They don't. Significant amounts of literature have been written on this. C: The draft is a component of team building. You have limited resources (cap space) so the real value of the draft is getting below market rate talent. If you can draft a RB and pay him 5M per year or go get a proven NFL talent RB for 5M, you're not getting any extra value out of the RB. That is why drafting premium positions with high FA costs is the best way to build a team. That doesn't mean every pick should be a QB/LT/EDGE because you have to meet a certain threshold of quality to be useful, but there is virtually no situation in which a RB/LB can provide a better value in the first round than another player that grades out as a first rounder. The biggest problem with draft analysis is we see Best Player Available as the way of evaluating whether or not a player is a good pick when the goal really should be Best Expected Value Available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Is it just me, or did literally every single one of those wildly amazing Devin White gifs show him literally unblocked? I'd hope that's not the only evidence there to suggest he's worth a 12th overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think we already have our own Devin White with Jones and Burks, maybe not as talented, but they can do what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestar Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said: I think we already have our own Devin White with Jones and Burks, maybe not as talented, but they can do what he does. That's like saying we don't need an EDGE because we have Tyler Lancaster and JK Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Is it just me, or did literally every single one of those wildly amazing Devin White gifs show him literally unblocked? I'd hope that's not the only evidence there to suggest he's worth a 12th overall pick. A testament to LSU's DL, no doubt. He does look faster than anything we've got at ILB. But I agree, I think this is a rich man's Oren Burks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lodestar said: That's like saying we don't need an EDGE because we have Tyler Lancaster and JK Scott. lol thats a steep comparison, but I'm just saying Jones has shown that's his best position in the role White would probably be asked to play. Burks could come along as well going into his second year. Just playing devils advocate that we already have guys that can fill in there fine to draft someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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