drfrey13 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 2:56 PM, big_palooka said: lol... why the heck would he have the drive with a move to Vegas? Hiring a bunch of former players is dumb. Part of the problem Al Davis had. Too many yes men around him because he had former players on the payroll who didn't actually do anything. I understand that but the position he is talking about would be selling potential free agents on coming to the team. Having someone that players respect and look up to is a great selling tool. If everything else is equal between 2 teams and one has me talking to a suit and another has me talking to one of my idols growing up who do you think I pick. It is a cherry on top that could help to snowball this team back in a positive direction. I do not want Woodson making personnel decisions or giving me advice. I am going to greet the free agent with Woodson and have him with me talking to the free agent during the visit. I question Woodson wanting to do it though. He would have to be sold on it and yes the idea of setting up a franchise in a city that has never had a pro football team with brand new everything is part of what he would be sold on. Some people find stuff like this exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 7:53 AM, big_palooka said: Depends on their view of him. He's still young and you might think you could plug him in with Barkely, OBJ and Engram and have something. With good OL play, Carr, Barkley, OBJ and Engram could be deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 5:53 AM, big_palooka said: Depends on their view of him. He's still young and you might think you could plug him in with Barkely, OBJ and Engram and have something. Trading Carr is ridiculous. He is 27 years old, has proven that he can play at an MVP level and lead this team to the playoffs and fans want to ship him out? Makes zero sense considering that he could very well have 10+ productive seasons left. Let's say we trade Carr, where does that leave us at the QB position? The easy and very low brow answer is that we will just draft one. Anyone who says that has zero clue as to how hard it is to find a franchise QB and clearly doesn't understand how important QB play to the success of a franchise. I can name so many teams that are hamstrung by average to below average QB play. Bucks, Titans, Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Ravens, Jags, Broncos etc. I'm sick of naming teams and I will say that Carr gives us the best chance to win games right now and over the next handful of seasons. He had a pretty decent season considering how terrible this team was in terms of talent. Bottom of the league in overall talent and Carr played his butt off and you guys want to ship him out for picks SMH. II will go out on a limb and say that if Carr was the QB of the Bears and Ravens they both win yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Trading Carr is ridiculous. He is 27 years old, has proven that he can play at an MVP level and lead this team to the playoffs and fans want to ship him out? Makes zero sense considering that he could very well have 10+ productive seasons left. That was 2 years ago. Did he peak? Because he's shown in the last 2 seasons to be an average QB who can't handle pressure consistently. Again, you can win with Carr, he can be productive, but he isn't going to be a game changer or elite QB. I doubt more each year he's a guy you could win in the playoffs with. Would I trade him? Only if the compensation was there. 2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Let's say we trade Carr, where does that leave us at the QB position? The easy and very low brow answer is that we will just draft one. Anyone who says that has zero clue as to how hard it is to find a franchise QB and clearly doesn't understand how important QB play to the success of a franchise. Only way you trade is for a first round pick +. You can sign a guy like Tyrod Taylor or a guy like Nick Foles (who is arguably a better QB) when Philly releases him vs. paying him a 20mil salary in 2019. And with multiple first round picks, you can be diligent in drafting the right guy. You scoff at the idea but..... the hit rate on QB in round 1 has increased in recent years. 2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: II will go out on a limb and say that if Carr was the QB of the Bears and Ravens they both win yesterday. I'll go with what's proven, that if the Eagles or Chargers Defense pressured him, he'd have struggled, started throwing erratic throws off the back foot and taken a lot of sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Trading Carr is ridiculous. He is 27 years old, has proven that he can play at an MVP level and lead this team to the playoffs and fans want to ship him out? Makes zero sense considering that he could very well have 10+ productive seasons left. Let's say we trade Carr, where does that leave us at the QB position? The easy and very low brow answer is that we will just draft one. Anyone who says that has zero clue as to how hard it is to find a franchise QB and clearly doesn't understand how important QB play to the success of a franchise. I can name so many teams that are hamstrung by average to below average QB play. Bucks, Titans, Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Ravens, Jags, Broncos etc. I'm sick of naming teams and I will say that Carr gives us the best chance to win games right now and over the next handful of seasons. He had a pretty decent season considering how terrible this team was in terms of talent. Bottom of the league in overall talent and Carr played his butt off and you guys want to ship him out for picks SMH. II will go out on a limb and say that if Carr was the QB of the Bears and Ravens they both win yesterday. bunch of clowns on here.... Qbs starting to play into their 40s... Qbs don't start peaking until the age of 30, the position is so mental..... "let's dump Carr for a 2nd rounder bro" clowns on here... let's ignore we always change the playbook, have the most pathetic wrs in the league, started two 30 year old RBs, he's just coming off some major injuries... yeah lets trade him bro..... we would literally be the joke of the league we trade Carr and he has another 10-15 years as a good starting qb, with pro bowl appearances... meanwhile we would be taking the growing pains of a rookie QB for the next 3-4 years, and hope he pans out... we would suck during that time span too.... plus the little but of respect and leadership we have in the locker room would be gone.... chaos and you players would really doubt Gruden vision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Barely realized it, but Carr and Penn are the longest tenured Raiders.... we would really give up the heart and soul of this franchise with a Carr deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: bunch of clowns on here.... And you're driving them to the circus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Trading Carr is ridiculous. He is 27 years old, has proven that he can play at an MVP level and lead this team to the playoffs and fans want to ship him out? Makes zero sense considering that he could very well have 10+ productive seasons left. Let's say we trade Carr, where does that leave us at the QB position? The easy and very low brow answer is that we will just draft one. Anyone who says that has zero clue as to how hard it is to find a franchise QB and clearly doesn't understand how important QB play to the success of a franchise. I can name so many teams that are hamstrung by average to below average QB play. Bucks, Titans, Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Ravens, Jags, Broncos etc. I'm sick of naming teams and I will say that Carr gives us the best chance to win games right now and over the next handful of seasons. He had a pretty decent season considering how terrible this team was in terms of talent. Bottom of the league in overall talent and Carr played his butt off and you guys want to ship him out for picks SMH. II will go out on a limb and say that if Carr was the QB of the Bears and Ravens they both win yesterday. I don't think it's going particularly far out on a limb to essentially suggest Derek Carr is a better QB than Mitch Trubisky or Lamar Jackson, because he almost certainly is. I agree with your point in general, although maybe not so vehemently. Carr has played at a very high level with us in the past, and you could see as the season went on that his level of play was improving throughout. Between the embarrassment in London vs Seattle and the last game in KC, he was generally pretty good with barely any help. Learning Gruden's system, regaining his confidence, building trust with certain players (Nelson, Cook and Richard) - you could see it all coming together. Now with all that in mind, I do hope we make the decision to move forward with him. But to play devil's advocate a little, I can see why some in the organization/fanbase would want to move on. He has some pretty significant flaws; mainly of the mental variety. They don't make him a bad QB, but they are the reason why he is closer to Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill than he is to Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers. Which is all fine - you can definitely win with a guy his level. But if Gruden and Mayock think they can do better... well, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Nightmare said: I can see why some in the organization/fanbase would want to move on. For the record, it's not black and white for me. I don't want to move on. Unless that is, there solid compensation (1st round) and a plan at QB for 2019 if he was traded. All I was saying is if the Giants/Jags came calling with a good offer, I'd probably do it because I don't think Carr is an elite caliber QB. I think we've seen his ceiling. He will win games, but be a middle of the road starter with some upside years where things go really well as 2016 evidenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Really been trying to avoid this convo, but it's going to be a hot topic for awhile. You never know what Gruden is going to do. So I won't be surprised at anything. With that said, I can't see Carr being traded unless it's for multiple high draft picks. I have nothing, but my gut and history to back up this claim. However, I firmly believe that Carr will wind up being compared more to Gannon and Brees when it's all said and done. Not the disposable piece that others claim. I'll stick to my guns on that until proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: For the record, it's not black and white for me. I don't want to move on. Unless that is, there solid compensation (1st round) and a plan at QB for 2019 if he was traded. All I was saying is if the Giants/Jags came calling with a good offer, I'd probably do it because I don't think Carr is an elite caliber QB. I think we've seen his ceiling. He will win games, but be a middle of the road starter with some upside years where things go really well as 2016 evidenced. What is "a plan at qb for 2019" that you would consider acceptable? Fitzpatrick on a 1 year deal is a plan. Flacco or Tanehill (assuming he gets cut) on a multi year deal is a plan as well. Both would mean more picks but also a bigger issue at qb and still no long term solution. For me a plan i could agree on is contingent on our hc/gm truely believing they see a franchise qb and draft him at #4, and up front agreeing on a deal with the Giants (Carr for #6 and next years 1st) with this deal only happening if our guy is available at 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 hours ago, Roninho said: What is "a plan at qb for 2019" that you would consider acceptable? Fitzpatrick on a 1 year deal is a plan. Flacco or Tanehill (assuming he gets cut) on a multi year deal is a plan as well. Both would mean more picks but also a bigger issue at qb and still no long term solution. For me a plan i could agree on is contingent on our hc/gm truely believing they see a franchise qb and draft him at #4, and up front agreeing on a deal with the Giants (Carr for #6 and next years 1st) with this deal only happening if our guy is available at 4. I don't think the Raiders will be good in 2019, so I'm looking to draft in the 2020 class. So 2019 would be a stopgap year so pick a guy with some experience or make a play on Foles who might actually be a better QB for you. Mayock said last night "we have a QB" so it's sounding as if they are committed to Carr. Or it's clever GM talk lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Yeah we can't really make much from that statement by Mayock. He might mean it, but if he doesnt see Carr as Raiders QB in 2019 he still has to give that answer to not diminish Carrs trade value imo. The thing with moving on from Carr to get draft picks is that the chances of landing a franchise QB in the draft are not that great to begin with, and are very minimal if you don't want to use your draft capital to move up to #1 or #2. In the past decade i can only think of one QB who was drafted in round 1 or 2 but not #1 or #2 who is a clear upgrade over Carr and that is Mahomes. So essentially if we trade Carr this offseason we better be having the #1 or #2 pick in next years draft or we are likely to have to spend our acquired picks to move up. And then we might end up with a Luck or a Wentz/Goff, or just as well end up with a Mariota, Winston or Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 17 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: bunch of clowns on here Reported Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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