Lions let go of Jim Bob Cooter

[Nex_Gen]

7 hours ago, ET80 said:

Patricia finally getting in his own OC. 

What OC left in the NFL likes to design his offense around a 250 lbs scatback who likes to rely on his speed and agility? Patricia will take him, no questions asked...

[nagahide13]

1 hour ago, pwny said:

Yeah, I thought he gave the Lions a nice spark when they made the change from Lombardi in 2015, and even thought he could be an interesting candidate after the 2016 year, but two straight years he's completely failed to adapt to the situations in front of him. He doesn't really have it.

This is exactly accurate.

Lombardi was one of the worst NFL coaches I've ever seen. Cooter was an incredible improvement, but he never progressed. He regressed into a Lombardi-esque heap.

They are the only two coaches I can remember had opposing defenses calling out the plays pre-snap. That's completely unacceptable.

[abstract_thought]

I think he was doing a solid job considering the personnel he was given. Maybe it's me but I don't consider "wasting the talent of Zach Zenner" to be a fireable offense for an OC.

[Thelonebillsfan]

1 hour ago, pwny said:

Yeah, I thought he gave the Lions a nice spark when they made the change from Lombardi in 2015, and even thought he could be an interesting candidate after the 2016 year, but two straight years he's completely failed to adapt to the situations in front of him. He doesn't really have it.

But when people are "thoroughly impressed" with the inconsistencies of Nate Hackett's 2017 campaign, I guess I can see how Cooter looks like a fantastic mind.

Nate Hackett getting praise last year was amazing to see. He's awful

[footbull3196]

I would have probably kept him and upgraded the personnel they already have, but I understand why they got rid of him after this year because it was a pretty big disappointment.  The Lions didn’t use Kerryon properly (because quite frankly he’s the best running back they’ve had since Barry Sanders), and Stafford’s regression was obvious this year when he should have been able to throw the hell out of the football this year with the receivers they had (Tate before he was traded, Galladay, Jones).  Here’s Staffords stats the last few seasons under JBC:

2015: 7.2 gpa, 32 TDs, 13 INTs (including 19 TDs and only 2 INTs after JBC took over mid season)

2016: 7.3 ypa, 24 TDs, 10 INTs 

2017: 7.9 ypa, 29 TDs, 10 INTs

2018: 6.8 ypa, 21 TDs, 11 INTs

[titansNvolsR#1]

Wouldn't mind the Cooter Scooter coming back to Knoxville.

[Dr LBC]

9 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I do not believe there is any rationalism here.

There is.

I've talked a fair amount with Risdon and while what he said didn't sit right with me at first, after thinking about it and holding it up against the Lions games (particularly the last half of the season when their downturn was really prevalent), the rationale really does hold water:

 

[IDOG_det]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

I think he was doing a solid job considering the personnel he was given. Maybe it's me but I don't consider "wasting the talent of Zach Zenner" to be a fireable offense for an OC.

If he actually used someone like Zenner he might have saved his job. Zenner isn't a very good player, yet he's far better right now than LeGarrette Blount who was trotted out there constantly and killed drive after drive as a result. His failures have extended beyond this season though. Last year Eric Ebron was completely misused. Ebron finally gets to play in a different offense and suddenly he's getting the number of targets and redzone usage that he deserves and magically he looks like one of the top TEs in the league. Marvin Jones, Kenny Golladay, and Matthew Stafford all should be used in a downfield, vertical-based passing game yet the Lions have never consistently employed that under Cooter and have been near the bottom of the league in average air yards, time to throw, intended air yards. There are so many examples where the Lions offense should have operated in one way yet Cooter took them in the complete opposite direction.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, The LBC said:

There is.

I've talked a fair amount with Risdon and while what he said didn't sit right with me at first, after thinking about it and holding it up against the Lions games (particularly the last half of the season when their downturn was really prevalent), the rationale really does hold water:

 

 

5 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

If he actually used someone like Zenner he might have saved his job. Zenner isn't a very good player, yet he's far better right now than LeGarrette Blount who was trotted out there constantly and killed drive after drive as a result. His failures have extended beyond this season though. Last year Eric Ebron was completely misused. Ebron finally gets to play in a different offense and suddenly he's getting the number of targets and redzone usage that he deserves and magically he looks like one of the top TEs in the league. Marvin Jones, Kenny Golladay, and Matthew Stafford all should be used in a downfield, vertical-based passing game yet the Lions have never consistently employed that under Cooter and have been near the bottom of the league in average air yards, time to throw, intended air yards. There are so many examples where the Lions offense should have operated in one way yet Cooter took them in the complete opposite direction.

There's no doubt Cooter did a lot of good things in DET...early on.   

I think the above criticism that he took Stafford's best traits out of the O, and then made horrible personnel decisions at key positions and didn't get the most of the talent he had, is entirely legitimate.  Ebron, using Blount over Kerryon, those are entirely fair criticisms.

To me, it seemed like D's figured out JBC's scheme 2 years ago - and he never adapted back.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, The LBC said:

There is.

I've talked a fair amount with Risdon and while what he said didn't sit right with me at first, after thinking about it and holding it up against the Lions games (particularly the last half of the season when their downturn was really prevalent), the rationale really does hold water:

 

Somehow I find this hard to believe.  Admittedly, I haven't watched very many Lions' games but with JBC as his OC he posted the top 4 highest completion percentage of his career, 3 of his 4 lowest INT% of his career with at least 500 passes, and 2 of his 3 highest ANY/A.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Wouldnt mind bringing him on the Jags 

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, IDOG_det said:

If he actually used someone like Zenner he might have saved his job. Zenner isn't a very good player, yet he's far better right now than LeGarrette Blount who was trotted out there constantly and killed drive after drive as a result. His failures have extended beyond this season though. Last year Eric Ebron was completely misused. Ebron finally gets to play in a different offense and suddenly he's getting the number of targets and redzone usage that he deserves and magically he looks like one of the top TEs in the league. Marvin Jones, Kenny Golladay, and Matthew Stafford all should be used in a downfield, vertical-based passing game yet the Lions have never consistently employed that under Cooter and have been near the bottom of the league in average air yards, time to throw, intended air yards. There are so many examples where the Lions offense should have operated in one way yet Cooter took them in the complete opposite direction.

I'm not sure using Eric Ebron, and his TD reception anomaly is the right example.  Stafford never really has struck me as the QB whose going to get his TE involved in the offense.  Over his career with the Lions, he had 0.3 yards per reception less than this year in Indianapolis.  He got about 30 more targets than the last 3 year averages.  And his catch rate in Indianapolis was lower than any season other than Ebron's rookie season.  In the red zone, Ebron had 18 targets for 10 receptions with 10 TD receptions this year with Indianapolis.  In his entire Lions' career (4 seasons), he had 30 targets for 16 receptions and 9 TD receptions.  That breaks down to 7.5 targets per season, 4 receptions, and 2.3 TD receptions per season.  He was Indianapolis' offense in the red zone.  I'd venture a guess to say Calvin Johnson was the main target when he was there.

[cp0k2]

A microcosm of Detroit's offense:

Start possession

Kerryon Johnson breaks a nice run
*sub out Johnson for Blount for some reason
1st down: Handoff to Blount for 2 yards
2nd down: Handoff to Blount for 1 yard
3rd down: Option A - 5 yard pass to Riddick
Option B - Incomplete pass 30 yards downfield
Option C - Sack
4th down: Punt

[IDOG_det]

40 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure using Eric Ebron, and his TD reception anomaly is the right example.  Stafford never really has struck me as the QB whose going to get his TE involved in the offense.  Over his career with the Lions, he had 0.3 yards per reception less than this year in Indianapolis.  He got about 30 more targets than the last 3 year averages.  And his catch rate in Indianapolis was lower than any season other than Ebron's rookie season.  In the red zone, Ebron had 18 targets for 10 receptions with 10 TD receptions this year with Indianapolis.  In his entire Lions' career (4 seasons), he had 30 targets for 16 receptions and 9 TD receptions.  That breaks down to 7.5 targets per season, 4 receptions, and 2.3 TD receptions per season.  He was Indianapolis' offense in the red zone.  I'd venture a guess to say Calvin Johnson was the main target when he was there.

You just made my argument for me though. He wasn't really a different player in Indianapolis, but his production and the perception of him has been better because he was finally used properly. He didn't change, the offense he was in changed. An additional 30 targets is a significant difference and more than doubling his average redzone targets is a significant difference. Sure, Calvin Johnson was around for his first two years, but that doesn't explain the failure to use him intelligently in 2016 or 2017 when Calvin Johnson was retired. It's not surprising that Ebron's catch rate would be slightly lower in Indianapolis because I would probably guess that his average depth of target is significantly further down the field.

Also, Stafford loves throwing over the middle of the field. It would have been nice if Ebron was used that way when he was here. Instead, they usually just tried to manufacture touches for him by throwing it to him in the flat after having him fake a split zone block.

[Blazer026]

All the Lions fans in my area seem to be quite happy he's gone.