AKRNA Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Head Coach. With a close relationship / investment in whichever QB we draft R1, and a innovative offensive shceme that plays to said QB's strengths. Huh, shows how opinions differ. I consider him quite a reach as an OC, an acceptable risk I guess but still a reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 2 hours ago, AKRNA said: Just like beauty it's really in the eye of the beholder now isn't it. Am I to answer this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Packers are going to hire Matt LaFleur, per Schefter. Great move by a great franchise. I wonder if he was not a candidate for us or if he declined to interview with us. Never thought I’d see the day when I have to ask that question about the Denver freaking Broncos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 On the Nate (Lundy), Shawn (Drotar) & Renaud (Notaro) show this afternoon, they were saying that any interviews they are doing now are window dressing, and that they are gonna hire Pagano. That would be terrible, but par for the course for this stupid organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: On the Nate (Lundy), Shawn (Drotar) & Renaud (Notaro) show this afternoon, they were saying that any interviews they are doing now are window dressing, and that they are gonna hire Pagano. That would be terrible, but par for the course for this stupid organization. I'll say this much about Pagano to keep things positive. The dude caused some pretty dramatic turnarounds with the defenses he coached during his assistant days even going back to the Browns. So the guy has some coaching chops, and even coached the Colts to the AFC Championship came. But I think to succeed with him it's gonna take talent levels that we don't currently have on our roster. I would say this though. Whoever was responsible for last year's draft class need to do the picking again this year. Another class like that, and we may be right back in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Klis reports the elimination of Zac Taylor, Chuck Pagano and Brian Flores. Our new head coach is either Mike Munchak or Vic Fangio. Personally I'd prefer Fangio if Kubiak is going to be the OC, but Munchak is probably the better "CEO" option (But that would mean needing both a playcalling OC and DC, whereas with Fangio he could run the defense and Kubiak the offense and we would just need a paper OC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 FWIW as our dark days in the 60’s were referenced - we should recognize the salary cap has changed the risk inherent to franchises remaining in purgatory. Back then with free agency so limited & no cap, teams could retain their talent almost in perpetuity. If you were a struggling franchise it created a cycle of futility as the best teams could retain the best talent and thus be also the best spots to recruit coaches. Nowadays the teams that remain in purgatory are those that can’t draft well and/or manage the roster cap well (or both). The talent (or lack thereof) cycle isn’t self perpetuating like it was pre-cap when you saw dynasty franchises. The Browns (too long of a history there lol), Jets (bad drafting and previous cap management with Tannenbaum - now cap and draft last 2 years getting there), Bills (horrific drafting Watkins, EJ Manuel, etc.) and Dolphins (horrible cap management under Tannenbaum) really illustrate that you have to botch the drafts and/or cap management (or usually both) to stay at the bottom for more than 5+ years. And in those cases, it's not exclusive to that position, but draft whiffs are usually most prominent at QB. It’s also why the cheap rookie deal QB that hits gets teams off that road to purgatory given the cap flexibility and also gets a crucial roster position addressed. And why teams who don’t find their QB are behind the 8 ball - it can still be successful but the margin for error goes down. And why early draft whiffs for QB really set teams back most of all, because of the 3+ year investment that inevitably goes with Rd1 picks (or early Rd2, like we did with Osweiler, just had PFM to soften the blow). Why do I raise this point in the coaching thread? To underline the sentiment that swinging for the fences is actually justifiable. The specter of continued struggle with a miss at HC doesn’t carry nearly the same risk in the cap era - bad drafting and cap management matter far more for long term health. Kubiak was a fine HC - but Elway’s whiffs in the draft from 2013-17 and our need to keep 2nd contract guys and losing roster talent are what led to our downfall in 2016-18, along with not having a good QB anymore. Now it doesn’t mean we should deliberately go out and try to whiff at HC - but going for the home run HC hire with a risk we whiff isn’t as loaded as picking the wrong QB, or drafting poorly, or throwing away cap health to win now when we can’t contend. The HC we hire now if it’s safe is a 95+ percent probability to be a bridge. Nothing more. So going for it with a bold hire actually doesn’t carry the same risk as with past hires. Best case we find a guy who transforms the O and is our long term guy with an earlier turnaround to success. Worst case we whiff and pick earlier if that HC costs us 1-2 games (unless you are Hue Jackson / Jeff Fisher bad it’s hard to be a net -3+ loss HC). But the reality is we still face a 2-year window to rebuild especially if we don’t find a long term QB this year. How we draft and manage cap health and develop the taken in our young guys will matter far more. As long as the new hire retains Kollar and Kugler (or is better than either at developing talent there) then I don’t have any issue with a “swing-for-fences” hire (nor a safe hire, either). We already are no longer a top target - and teams with far less overall historical success are getting more attention because they look to have more talent, decent cap situation and a QB in place. How we do in those 3 areas will determine our status the next go-around. But if we do want to really transform the O it’s unlikely we get that bright mind who’s established barring either an earlier hire on - or finding the QB. Don’t get me wrong - HC’s matter. But their impact is felt most with contenders getting to the SB vs. evenly matched teams or teams on the brink of contention breaking through. Realistically I don’t see that for 2 more seasons unless we find our QB this offseason. And it’s a terrible year on that front. The blessing is that if we aren’t contenders - staying young, drafting well and staying cap healthy are the ways back. It’s exactly the formula teams like IND & CLE have used to come back from the abyss. And yes finding their QB too. The risk our HC hire costs us dearly if we whiff is just not as much of a difference maker until we are a better team and have our QBOTF (when we were a contender diff story). Obviously I hope we don’t whiff - but the risk of being perennially bad isn’t nearly the same in this era. We are rebuilders either way for 2019 and likely 2020 either way. How we draft and who we get as our next long term QB will decide how long the rebuild lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 To be fair Vic Fangio is not an old school "rah rah" DC. He is more like a mob boss. In fact the players call him the Godfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, paul-mac said: Klis reports the elimination of Zac Taylor, Chuck Pagano and Brian Flores. Our new head coach is either Mike Munchak or Vic Fangio. Well color me excited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, paul-mac said: Klis reports the elimination of Zac Taylor, Chuck Pagano and Brian Flores. Our new head coach is either Mike Munchak or Vic Fangio. Personally I'd prefer Fangio if Kubiak is going to be the OC, but Munchak is probably the better "CEO" option (But that would mean needing both a playcalling OC and DC, whereas with Fangio he could run the defense and Kubiak the offense and we would just need a paper OC) Maybe it's the "young offensive coach phenomenon" distracting me, but why do neither Munchak or Fangio inspire me as good hires? Feels a little bit like more of the same with Denver. Obviously the OC hire will be key, but this franchise need a franchise signal caller and you'd think you'd want to get a coach for that job. Munchak and Fangio feel a little like more of Elway mis-managing the QB spot in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Well color me excited The way things are going I am leaning more towards Fangio - someone who won't be a yes-man. At the end of the day the candidate pool is meh Would still prefer Shanahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Maybe it's the "young offensive coach phenomenon" distracting me, but why do neither Munchak or Fangio inspire me as good hires? Neither inspires me at all either. I don't understand how or why a sizable portion of the fan base is all over Vic Fangio as some great hire, he's the top choice going away according to polls and some fan blogs I've read. I can see why he excites some in the media because he's a loose cannon who will probably be enjoyable in press conferences but talk about a uninspired choice. Fangio as HC and Kubiak as OC, a 1980s defense and 1990s offense in the 2019 NFL. This is the wagon to which Elway wants to hitch his GM legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Neither inspires me at all either. I don't understand how or why a sizable portion of the fan base is all over Vic Fangio as some great hire, he's the top choice going away according to polls and some fan blogs I've read. I can see why he excites some in the media because he's a loose cannon who will probably be enjoyable in press conferences but talk about a uninspired choice. Fangio as HC and Kubiak as OC, a 1980s defense and 1990s offense in the 2019 NFL. This is the wagon to which Elway wants to hitch his GM legacy? Exactly how I see it. And reaching back to Kubiak as your OC just feels desperate. Feels like a GM who isn't looking forward but stuck in yesterday's success. These moves feel direction less. Elway seems to be stuck thinking he's in win now mode and has a roster to do it and that's a problem. His moves lately have be desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Bears fan checking in -- wanted to see if you have heard any rumors or anything indicating which way Elway is leaning. Stay away from my guy Vic lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 35 minutes ago, G08 said: Bears fan checking in -- wanted to see if you have heard any rumors or anything indicating which way Elway is leaning. Stay away from my guy Vic lol Seems like it's down to Fangio or Munchak. After that, no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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