AlexGreen#20 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, SSG said: Do post June 1 trades have the same cap ramifications as post June 1 cuts? Didn't even know there was such a thing as a Post June 1st Trade Designation. Unless you mean literally trading him after June 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, TheBitzMan said: He is going to be 30 with cap numbers of $25.1M in 2019, $25.6M in 2020 and $22.1M in 2021. I would love to have the player but I cannot trade the 12th overall pick for an aging player with that contract. I wouldn't give more than a second round pick for the guy to be honest. Not with those cap numbers and his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Again, no. Von Miller will be 30 years old in less than two months. Our 12th round pick is supposed to be someone who will be with us for ten years. They are a pick that will eclipse Aaron's time here and be an important piece for us to build around the next QB. I want more eggs invested in more years. Von Miller is every single egg into the first two seasons of an unknown head coach. You want to pull a mega move like that, make sure we can get into the playoffs without that player and then add that player after we win a Super Bowl or after we're close to winning a Super Bowl. You get Von Millers by hitting on top 16 draft picks without trading them away for 30-year-old Von Millers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Unfortunately these Mack type of trades don't happen often, not sure theres a reason to move him on the Broncos end with that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 51 minutes ago, Rodjahs12 said: Literally no way you can have two players on your roster accounting for nearly 60 million in cap space We were about to do it with Mack and that was while giving up pics. I"m not advocating for this don't get me wrong. But if Gute felt strong enough about it why not. This is what is starting to happen and will start to push up the price on the kids and force shorter higher annual wage contracts possibly. Denver knew what they were doing now they want to dump costs so they can resign cheaper guys to second contracts and they can't. We would have gotten into the same issue with Mack. If you have a Rook QB sure go all in on the other side of the ball if not you need to utilize them draft picks well to get cheap good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Gopackgonerd said: Unfortunately these Mack type of trades don't happen often, not sure theres a reason to move them on the Broncos end. You're not near competing with no way to acquire a decent QB. Your 30 year old pass rusher is signed to a massive deal and you're expecting production to start to drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Again, no. Von Miller will be 30 years old in less than two months. Our 12th round pick is supposed to be someone who will be with us for ten years. They are a pick that will eclipse Aaron's time here and be an important piece for us to build around the next QB. I want more eggs invested in more years. Von Miller is every single egg into the first two seasons of an unknown head coach. You want to pull a mega move like that, make sure we can get into the playoffs without that player and then add that player after we win a Super Bowl or after we're close to winning a Super Bowl. You get Von Millers by hitting on top 16 draft picks without trading them away for 30-year-old Von Millers. This is just laughable! You get a Von Miller talent once every 5 drafts if you're lucky. Guy is going to the Hall of Fame and you think it's common place to 'hit on a top 16 pick' and come away with one like it's no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You're not near competing with no way to acquire a decent QB. Your 30 year old pass rusher is signed to a massive deal and you're expecting production to start to drop They could still draft one this year. Not sure there will be many good FA QBs coming to the market, unless they really wanna overpay for someone like the Vikings did with Kirk Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Golfman said: This is just laughable! You get a Von Miller talent once every 5 drafts if you're lucky. Guy is going to the Hall of Fame and you think it's common place to 'hit on a top 16 pick' and come away with one like it's no big deal. I'd argue you're overstating things as far as the rarity of Von Miller. Justin Houston in Miller's class was close to that guy, minus drug problems. Clowney and Mack were both that caliber of prospect. Garrett with the Browns, Bosa with the Chargers. It's more of an every 2 year thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I'd rather have Khalil Mack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, Golfman said: This is just laughable! You get a Von Miller talent once every 5 drafts if you're lucky. Guy is going to the Hall of Fame and you think it's common place to 'hit on a top 16 pick' and come away with one like it's no big deal. Mahomes - 11th overall. Lattimore - 12th overall. Watson - 13th overall. Gurley - 10th overall. Gordon - 15th overall. Lewan - 11th overall. Beckham - 12th overall. Donald - 13th overall. Richardson - 12th overall. Luke Kuechley - 9th overall. Stephen Gilmore - 10th overall. Dontari Poe - 11th overall. Fletcher Cox - 12th overall. JJ Watt - 11th overall. Tyron Smith - 9th overall. Earl Thomas - 14th overall. Looks much closer to once every two years. Just going back to the 2010 NFL draft, I see 12 Hall of Fame talent players selected between 9th overall and 12th overall. That doesn't mean all 12 of those talents is going to the Hall of Fame, but... I can tell you right now that if it's a choice between paying Von Miller 24 million a year at 30, 31, 32 and 33 years of age or getting a player like Thomas, Smith, Watt, Cox, Poe, Gilmore, Kuechley, Richardson, Donald, Beckham, Lewan, Gordon, Gurley, Watson, Lattimore, Mahomes for 5 years on a rookie contract... I know which option I'm going with. If you can trade a 12th overall pick for a 2nd overall pick, yes, you absolutely do it. If you can trade a 12th overall pick for a former 2nd overall pick who is now 30 years old with an impending cap hit higher than your quarterback's and cap hits overall of 25 million, 25 million and 22 million, you don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I'd argue you're overstating things as far as the rarity of Von Miller. Justin Houston in Miller's class was close to that guy, minus drug problems. Clowney and Mack were both that caliber of prospect. Garrett with the Browns, Bosa with the Chargers. It's more of an every 2 year thing. True to an extent. I wouldn't put Houston in Miller's class though, one step below. You could make an argument for Clowney, Mack and Garrett but two of them were drafted No. 1 overall and Mack and Bosa were top 5. So yea, you can get guys at least close to or right around Miller's caliber but not in the "top 16" draft picks as suggested by the prior poster being responded to. If you aren't drafting in the top 5, you have a snowball's chance of landing a HOF pass rusher. It can happen (i.e. Aaron Donald), but it's rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Didn't even know there was such a thing as a Post June 1st Trade Designation. Unless you mean literally trading him after June 1st. Nor did I, that's why I was asking. Know about post June 1st cuts but had never heard that a trade after June 1st would have the same cap ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, packfanfb said: If you aren't drafting in the top 5, you have a snowball's chance of landing a HOF pass rusher. It can happen (i.e. Aaron Donald), but it's rare. I never suggested you can get HoF pass rushers in the top 16 the way you're suggesting I did. We don't need 12th overall to be a pass rusher in order for holding onto it instead of trading it for Von Miller to be a good idea. As I've just shown, there have been 12 Hall of Fame talents between 9th and 15th overall in the past 8 drafts alone. You acting like Hall of Fame talent is only achievable in the top 5 is demonstrably false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Mahomes - 11th overall. Lattimore - 12th overall. Watson - 13th overall. Gurley - 10th overall. Gordon - 15th overall. Lewan - 11th overall. Beckham - 12th overall. Donald - 13th overall. Richardson - 12th overall. Luke Kuechley - 9th overall. Stephen Gilmore - 10th overall. Dontari Poe - 11th overall. Fletcher Cox - 12th overall. JJ Watt - 11th overall. Tyron Smith - 9th overall. Earl Thomas - 14th overall. Looks much closer to once every two years. Just going back to the 2010 NFL draft, I see 12 Hall of Fame talent players selected between 9th overall and 12th overall. That doesn't mean all 12 of those talents is going to the Hall of Fame, but... I can tell you right now that if it's a choice between paying Von Miller 24 million a year at 30, 31, 32 and 33 years of age or getting a player like Thomas, Smith, Watt, Cox, Poe, Gilmore, Kuechley, Richardson, Donald, Beckham, Lewan, Gordon, Gurley, Watson, Lattimore, Mahomes for 5 years on a rookie contract... I know which option I'm going with. This is similar to the Mack thing though. Most of those players above don't impact games like Mack or Miller. Outside of QBs, you could throw in Donald and probably Watt as being close to impacting a game week to week like Mack or Von Miller. They are game-changers. Season-changers. They are the "premium" of the "premium" positions in your own words and therefore generally worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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