Brit Pack Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 There is all this talk about Fitz and wanting him to be the next HC of the Packers. I simply don't get it. I looked at this historically and there are two coaches in the whole of the NFL since way back when that have come out of college as head coaches straight to an NFL HC role and done good. Incidentally, both won Super Bowls and coached a very talented Cowboys team, which was created pre-free agency. Then there are a few who have done well from college but have had a history of the NFL previously, or who after college worked their way up in the NFL to an NFL HC gig. As Deion Sanders said in an interview 'why look at college coaches, there is so much coaching talent in the NFL.' If someone like Fitz is hot at the college level, I would want him to come and earn his stripes in the NFL first as OC or DC, then have the right to be an NFL HC. The jump is just too big from College to the NFL. There are just too many coaches who were outstanding in the college game but who diddly in the NFL for me to think it is clever to turn over the keys to an NFL team. So here is what the past looks like, my apologies if I didn't capture every coach here but this should provide a body of evidence. Done good from college with no previous NFL experience Jimmy Johnson – 4 years head coach of Hurricanes before becoming Cowboys HC, and then Dolphins HC, 10 years in the NFL 2 super bowl wins Barry Switzer, Oklahoma HC from ’73 to ’88, then resigned and put on probation after some issues with the NCAA, came Cowboys HC in ’94 for three seasons, was 40-24 with a Super Bowl win. Is in the College Football Hall of Fame with a 157-29 record. Done good from college HC to NFL but with previous NFL experience in coordinator roles Dennis Green, bounced around both leagues, was HC of Northwestern and then became WR coach with the Niners and won a Super Bowl, then went to Stanford as HC for two years, then 9 years ‘successful’ as Vikings head coach, and 2 years as Arizona HC. Pete Carroll – from 73 till 83 in various college roles then NFL coordinator positions from 84 till 96, then HC for three years of the Pats, 8 years in college at USC as HC, then back to the NFL with Seattle, won a super bowl, appeared in another Tom Coughlin = 1984 – 1990 in NFL, 3 years in college, then from 95 back in the NFL, 2 Super Bowl wins Marv Levy – 4 years as HC of William and Mary, then spent three years in the NFL as ST guy, before going to the CFL for 4 years as HC winning the Grey Cup twice, then from their to the Chiefs for 4 years, 1 year as USFL coach before his 11 year stint as HC of the Bills Went straight from College HC to NFL HC and bombed Dennis Erickson – two stints in the NFL Seahawks 1995 – 99, 9ers 2003 – 04, bombed at both, 40 -56 record, in college had 179-96 won a few bowls and national championships Lou Holtz, 3 years prior to joining the NFL he was HC at NC State, then went straight into the NFL as a head coach of the Jets for 1 season in 1976. John McKay, 15 years USC head coach, then 8 years as Bucs HC. Went 44-88, with two winning seasons Mike Riley, two seasons as HC at Oregon State, then became HC of the Chargers ’99 to ’01 with a 14-34 record, then went to the Saints for one season as AHC/DB coach, went back to the college game where he had 112-99 record Steve Spurrier, HC in college from ’83 to 2001 then went to the Redskins for two seasons with a 12-20 record. Went back to college. While in college he as a 228-89 record. Chip Kelly, Oregon HC for four seasons, then went to be Philly HC for three seasons then one season at the Niners, going 28-35. Did time in the NFL and college before getting an NFL HC gig Steve Marucci, 4 years as coach at Cal WR/OC, 3 years in GB as QB coach, went back to Cal as HC for one year, then HC for 13 years in the NFL with Niners and Lions. 72-67 NFL record. Al Groh, 5 years as Wake Forest HC before making the jump to the NFL as Atlanta TE/ST coach, spent 13 years in the NFL before getting a HC gig with the Jets. For 1 year went 9-7. John Robinson, USC OC for three seasons, then went to the Raiders for one season as RB coach, then did a 6 year stint as HC for USC before coming the HC of the Rams for 9 seasons. Had a 75-68 record in the NFL, 6 winning seasons and is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Bobby Ross, 4 seasons as HC of The Citadel, then four seasons with the Chiefs as ST/QB/RB coach, went back to the college ranks and was a HC from 82 to 92, then went to the Chargers for 5 years and four seasons with the Lions. Went to the Super Bowl and lost with a record of in the NFL 74-63. Bobby Petrino, spent 5 years as an OC in the College game, 3 years as QB/OC for the Jags, then went back to college, from ’03 – ’06 as Louisville HC, got one season as Falcons HC went 3-10 got canned then has been back in the college game. Nick Saban, 4 seasons as Michigan State DC/DB coach, went to the Oilers then for two seasons as a DB coach, then head coach of Toledo in 1990, went back to the NFL for 4 seasons as a DC, then did a ten year stint as HC in college with Michigan State and then LSU, went back to the NFL as HC of the Phins for two seasons, has been Bama HC since ’07. 15-17 record in the NFL and 232-62 record in the college game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think I'm the only one on this site who doesn't give a flip about trends and everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Damn good question that I don't see a good answer for. We should not even sniff in the direction of a college coach with no NFL experience, and if we do... Massive error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Norm said: I think I'm the only one on this site who doesn't give a flip about trends and everything At a certain point you have to pay attention to trends when they're so strikingly obvious. It's like... Of ALL the college head coaches the only two who have won a Super Bowl without prior NFL experience coached for a Cowboys team with like 9 Hall of Fame players on it and that doesn't worry you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Damn good question that I don't see a good answer for. We should not even sniff in the direction of a college coach with no NFL experience, and if we do... Massive error. Amen. If they did somehow pick up Fitz, which seems very unlikely, I would have some serious doubts. That said, I'd obviously root hard for whoever the next HC was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: At a certain point you have to pay attention to trends when they're so strikingly obvious. It's like... Of ALL the college head coaches the only two who have won a Super Bowl without prior NFL experience coached for a Cowboys team with like 9 Hall of Fame players on it and that doesn't worry you? No. I'm not hiring 20 college head coaches in a row. I'm hiring one coach. I have to trust my own evaluations. That being said, I don't prefer a college coach by ANY means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 At some point you're looking for elite football minds and charismatic leaders. Those can come from a lot of spots. For a long time, the college game was the coaching minor leagues. That isn't the case anymore where coaches at elite college programs are making more money, with fewer restrictions, and have more control. Most coaches fail, that isn't limited to coaches coming from college to the NFL. Also I can't emphasize this enough, team performance is probably like 2 percent based on coaching performance barring some Jason Kidd/Jeff Fisher outdatedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: At some point you're looking for elite football minds and charismatic leaders. Those can come from a lot of spots. For a long time, the college game was the coaching minor leagues. That isn't the case anymore where coaches at elite college programs are making more money, with fewer restrictions, and have more control. Most coaches fail, that isn't limited to coaches coming from college to the NFL. Also I can't emphasize this enough, team performance is probably like 2 percent based on coaching performance barring some Jason Kidd/Jeff Fisher outdatedness. I don find greatness can switch between sporting arenas. In the UK a great rugby coach who turned around the England rugby team was hired to be director of football with a Premier League Football club, it just didn't work out. If you are a leader of men an organiser and motivator it doesn't mean the context of where you are leading within is negated. College is significantly different to the NFL and that's why the coaches from college that have had the best success in the NFL have moved from the college game and worked their way up to a HC gig in the NFL. it is also why fundamentally why not all NFL coordinators make good HC's. It is a different context. I think the jump between college and NFL is still too big for one to transition from the HC of one to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: At some point you're looking for elite football minds and charismatic leaders. Those can come from a lot of spots. For a long time, the college game was the coaching minor leagues. That isn't the case anymore where coaches at elite college programs are making more money, with fewer restrictions, and have more control. Most coaches fail, that isn't limited to coaches coming from college to the NFL. Also I can't emphasize this enough, team performance is probably like 2 percent based on coaching performance barring some Jason Kidd/Jeff Fisher outdatedness. This. Why WOULDN'T someone want a college coach if he was the best candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Brit Pack said: I don find greatness can switch between sporting arenas. In the UK a great rugby coach who turned around the England rugby team was hired to be director of football with a Premier League Football club, it just didn't work out. If you are a leader of men an organiser and motivator it doesn't mean the context of where you are leading within is negated. College is significantly different to the NFL and that's why the coaches from college that have had the best success in the NFL have moved from the college game and worked their way up to a HC gig in the NFL. it is also why fundamentally why not all NFL coordinators make good HC's. It is a different context. I think the jump between college and NFL is still too big for one to transition from the HC of one to another. Was the team he was hired to turnaround in the premier league a talentless mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I also think the factor of NFL mirroring college more than it ever has should play as well. I know he's a success on this list but like Switzer for example, dude is running the wishbone at OU. You at least are playing a far more similar game than some of these guys from 10+ years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Was the team he was hired to turnaround in the premier league a talentless mess? Not far off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: At some point you're looking for elite football minds and charismatic leaders. Those can come from a lot of spots. For a long time, the college game was the coaching minor leagues. That isn't the case anymore where coaches at elite college programs are making more money, with fewer restrictions, and have more control. Most coaches fail, that isn't limited to coaches coming from college to the NFL. Also I can't emphasize this enough, team performance is probably like 2 percent based on coaching performance barring some Jason Kidd/Jeff Fisher outdatedness. If coaches are only 2% of the equation, why do most coaches fail then? NFL coaches have more influence on the game than other sport #coachingmatters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, TheBitzMan said: If coaches are only 2% of the equation, why do most coaches fail then? NFL coaches have more influence on the game than other sport #coachingmatters Yeah, if coaches were only 2% of the equation, more than 6% of coaches in NFL history would have won a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green19 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Because our recruitment has been terrible the last 5 years... need a HC that can go into these players house and get them to sign with GB. -joking of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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