Riftty Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Haha I was trying to go for Gurley and Zeke are in a top tier but Barkley is just slightly above them even. Best of the best if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 10 hours ago, rocky_rams said: Easy cowboy... Stop forcing Elliot into the same convo with Barkley and Gurley. Barkley and Gurley are LT and AP level talent. Zeke is MJD Gurley has to prove he's on Zeke's level first to be included. How many rushing titles does Gurley have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 10 hours ago, rocky_rams said: Easy cowboy... Stop forcing Elliot into the same convo with Barkley and Gurley. Barkley and Gurley are LT and AP level talent. Zeke is MJD Zeke does the dirty work, keeps drives going. Barkley and Gurley are more homerun hitter types. It just depends what they are asking of their back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Zeke does the dirty work, keeps drives going. Barkley and Gurley are more homerun hitter types. It just depends what they are asking of their back. Zeke proved his rookie year and last year that he's more then just a workhorse and it's why so many of us fans hate Scott Linehan because he has no clue on how to use Zeke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Give it up Cal, when it comes to Cowboys RB debates, there is just way to much hate out there for anyone to admit the obvious. On another thread, I had the argument about best RB ever. It really came down to the old debate Smith vs Sanders. After many facts and stats the debate came down to this: Sanders gets more recognition because he played on a less talented team and had a 2000 yard season. Smith gets knocked because he played on a 3 time SB team with multiple Pro Bowlers. So his success is based entirely on his supporting cast. Okay. If that is the case, why isn't Randy Moss considered a better WR than Jerry Rice? I mean all Jerry Rice had to throw him the ball was Joe Montana and Steve Young. And as for the team, they were only a 5 time winning SB team. But NO ONE will ever discount Rice as the GOAT WR in spite of the tremendous amount of talent he had around him and Bill Walsh/ George Seifert HC. Doesn't seem fair does it? ANYWAY!!!! Zeke, Gurley, Barkley. RB's are measured by: 1. Yardage 2. TD's 3. Receptions 4. Intangibles (how many got 1st downs late in games to secure a victory? , how many were called on to get the all important 4th and 1 or 4th and goal?, how many times did they throw the block on a loan blitzer to give the QB that extra second or two to complete the big play? What is the team's record when said RB is NOT in the game?, etc.) Gurley CLEARLY has the better HC, QB, and possibly WR corp. O LIne seems about equal but has missed multiple games. Barkley is a rookie, fresh legs, unknown quantity, better WR corp than both LA and DAL, weaker O line but a 2 time SB winning QB. Elliott is clearly the workhorse, tough yards, hurdling, tackle breaking RB who missed his top WR for the first 4 games and members of a solid O line for significant parts of the year, not to mention 1 game. All things considered, Barkley and Elliott had ample opportunity to compete for the rushing title. Elliott wins that, again. Does this make him a better RB than Barkley? I don't have that answer. But did it help elevate his team to the playoffs? Could they have done it without him? I can answer those questions and my answer would be YES and NO. This makes him more valuable to his team than any other player. Could you say the same about Barkley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Rtnldave said: Barkley is a rookie, fresh legs, unknown quantity, better WR corp than both LA and DAL, weaker O line but a 2 time SB winning QB. Completely off topic, I know. But I love how NFCE fans throw this out there only when it's convenient for their argument. But when Giants fans bring it up, in response we get 'IT wAs tHE deFEnSE CaRRyINg eLI'. As for the topic at hand, it appears the majority of people outside of Texas agree Barkley had a better year. Which really makes me wonder how many glory hole visits Jerrah had to make with the voters of the All pro teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Rtnldave said: Give it up Cal, when it comes to Cowboys RB debates, there is just way to much hate out there for anyone to admit the obvious. Whats the obvious? I have no dog in this fight and I still chose Barkley. I have no hate for the cowboys. There's nothing "obvious" here. The main argument I'm seeing from Cowboys fans are for "intangibles", which by nature can't be clearly defined and are really hard to establish a quantitative value for. 1 hour ago, Rtnldave said: Gurley CLEARLY has the better HC, QB, and possibly WR corp. O LIne seems about equal but has missed multiple games. Barkley is a rookie, fresh legs, unknown quantity, better WR corp than both LA and DAL, weaker O line but a 2 time SB winning QB. Elliott is clearly the workhorse, tough yards, hurdling, tackle breaking RB who missed his top WR for the first 4 games and members of a solid O line for significant parts of the year, not to mention 1 game. Sorry, but this is extremely biased. You mention that Zeke was missing his top WR for 4 games, but fail to mention that OBJ sat out 4 games for the Giants. Missing parts of the Oline for portion of the year, but fail to mention that Zeke still had the superior offensive line by the only real metric we have to gauge the play on (FO offensive line efficiency rankings). So even with the injuries on the Cowboys line, it was still deemed far superior by at least one metric. The Giants allowed their running backs to get hit at or behind the line of scrimmage on 21% of their running plays (24th in the league), Dallas only 18% (11th in the league). You describe Zeke in glowing terms, but don't acknowledge any positives to the other guys and instead only try to tear down the accomplishment. Zeke, "hurdling"...do I really need to show how often Barkley hurdled people this year? Zeke runs for "tough yards". So I guess the Giants just pulled out Barkley for Wayne Gallman to get the tough yards when they needed them? The Rams pulled Gurley too? Zeke breaks tackles...but Barkley is credited with having broken more tackles by football outsiders, with a much higher broken tackles per touch rate (26.7% for barkley, 12.1% for Zeke, which btw, was also lower than Gurley). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Gurley has to prove he's on Zeke's level first to be included. How many rushing titles does Gurley have? Gurley doesn’t need rushing titles. Greats who played the position like LT say he’s the best in the league. I won’t mention Faulk or Dickerson because of obvious reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: Gurley doesn’t need rushing titles. Greats who played the position like LT say he’s the best in the league. I won’t mention Faulk or Dickerson because of obvious reasons Opposition "Yea but Barkley and Zeke did more with less of a supporting cast, I.E. Gurley is not on their level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Okay, so if intangibles don't count, then that leaves us with stats. Elliott won the rushing title again. Had he not got screwed last year He damn well may have won it 3 years in a row. And with all the talk about how Dak sucks, I can only assume Elliott is the main reason we won the NFC East 2 Out of the 3 years he has been here. And would have almost assuredly made the playoffs last year had he not been suspended for more than a third of the season. So what stat are you all basing Barkleys argument on? And while we are at it, you may as well stick all the titles, rushing yards, passing yards, QB rating, etc, up your spout. Because apparently they don't count for anything in these arguments. Only opinion matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Rtnldave said: So what stat are you all basing Barkleys argument on? Barkley has some of the important efficiency stats. Broken tackle %, Barkley with a worse offensive line. He was doing more on his own than Zeke it can be considered. YPC, Barkley. Yards per reception, Barkley. Touchdown rate, Barkley. Yards after catch (avg and total yards), Barkley. Success rate on runs inside the 3 yard line, Barkley. FWIW, I have no problem with Zeke being the 2nd team all pro. I'm fine with that. The team matters, for one. Zeke was the player on a division winning club. They have to ride him hard and often and he rises to the task. He's also a superior pass protector in my opinion. That matters (the same way I credit Kittle with being a superior run blocker over Kelce). Zeke also appears to have faced loaded boxes more (about 1% more of the time per next gen stats), which is sort of a loose stat, but one that shouldn't be completely ignored. Zeke has a higher DYAR, DVOA per FO. Zeke was more effective on third and short (78%), though the sample size is fairly limited for both. Quote Because apparently they don't count for anything in these arguments. Only opinion matters. I find this part of your post particularly hilarious though given the bulk of your initial post is entirely opinion based or non statistic related and the only stat you have used to support some sort of argument is total rushing yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Lol people voted for Zeke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Rtnldave said: Give it up Cal, when it comes to Cowboys RB debates, there is just way to much hate out there for anyone to admit the obvious. On another thread, I had the argument about best RB ever. It really came down to the old debate Smith vs Sanders. After many facts and stats the debate came down to this: Sanders gets more recognition because he played on a less talented team and had a 2000 yard season. Smith gets knocked because he played on a 3 time SB team with multiple Pro Bowlers. So his success is based entirely on his supporting cast. Okay. If that is the case, why isn't Randy Moss considered a better WR than Jerry Rice? I mean all Jerry Rice had to throw him the ball was Joe Montana and Steve Young. And as for the team, they were only a 5 time winning SB team. But NO ONE will ever discount Rice as the GOAT WR in spite of the tremendous amount of talent he had around him and Bill Walsh/ George Seifert HC. Doesn't seem fair does it? ANYWAY!!!! Zeke, Gurley, Barkley. RB's are measured by: 1. Yardage 2. TD's 3. Receptions 4. Intangibles (how many got 1st downs late in games to secure a victory? , how many were called on to get the all important 4th and 1 or 4th and goal?, how many times did they throw the block on a loan blitzer to give the QB that extra second or two to complete the big play? What is the team's record when said RB is NOT in the game?, etc.) Gurley CLEARLY has the better HC, QB, and possibly WR corp. O LIne seems about equal but has missed multiple games. Barkley is a rookie, fresh legs, unknown quantity, better WR corp than both LA and DAL, weaker O line but a 2 time SB winning QB. Elliott is clearly the workhorse, tough yards, hurdling, tackle breaking RB who missed his top WR for the first 4 games and members of a solid O line for significant parts of the year, not to mention 1 game. All things considered, Barkley and Elliott had ample opportunity to compete for the rushing title. Elliott wins that, again. Does this make him a better RB than Barkley? I don't have that answer. But did it help elevate his team to the playoffs? Could they have done it without him? I can answer those questions and my answer would be YES and NO. This makes him more valuable to his team than any other player. Could you say the same about Barkley? Hahahahaha Plays team victim card- check Makes absurd Smith over Sanders argument- check Makes absurd Rice/Smith comparison- check Makes absurd Zeke argument- check Truly an all-time great football's future post, and I applaud you for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Hahahahaha Plays team victim card- check Makes absurd Smith over Sanders argument- check Makes absurd Rice/Smith comparison- check Makes absurd Zeke argument- check Truly an all-time great football's future post, and I applaud you for that. Picks on someone else's argument because he knows he cannot refute what was written and tried to deflect the point like a sleezly attorney- check. And put your applause up the spout too! 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: Picks on someone else's argument because he knows he cannot refute what was written and tried to deflect the point like a sleezly attorney- check. And put your applause up the spout too! 😉 I'll have what you're having seems to be a hell of a trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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