packers selcet mAtt leFleUr as head coah

[Packerraymond]

11 minutes ago, SSG said:

Derrick Henry was second in the AFC in rushing despite having an OC who refused to use him.  Heck, up until the December playoff push, when he exploded, Dion Lewis had 10 more CARRIES and out snapped him by 215 snaps.  For being soft, he sure was a punishing runner.  Over 60% of his production as a runner last year came after contact (second in the league).  

Before you are too hard on Corey Davis, I'd imagine that there isn't a talking head in the industry that wouldn't take him over every WR on our roster not named Adams.  WRs tend to struggle when you've got a terrible play caller that has no idea what he's doing.  It was pretty obvious that the Titans offense took giant steps backward.  Whether that was because of LAF or not is unknown.  

I understand your frustrations with Henry in FF.  I too had him rostered.  Pretty frustrating to watch an offense give a small 3rd down back like Dion Lewis exactly the same number of carries inside the 10 as they are giving their 250 lb tackle breaking freak.  That's exactly what was going on before Henry's great December.  

What LAF did last year would be the equivalent of featuring Jamaal Williams in a struggling offense while you've got a healthy Aaron Jones on the bench.    

You realize through half the season Henry had 90 carries for 300 yards? If that's Jones numbers after week 8, I hope one of the William's is starting.

Henry's entire season was made vs Jax, that's 25% of his total yards. He played well in December. I'm far from ready to be sold on him. If that's your best playmaker, you don't have a good offense.

[HighCalebR]

Henry called his own running soft FWIW

https://profootballtalk-nbcsports-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/01/derrick-henry-disappointed-he-hasnt-played-like-elite-back/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fprofootballtalk.nbcsports.com%2F2018%2F11%2F01%2Fderrick-henry-disappointed-he-hasnt-played-like-elite-back%2F

[SSG]

20 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

1 carry going 99 where you created most of it goes a long way for that number. The last 4 games was the best of his career by far. He was downright bad before that. I drafted him on way too many fantasy teams so I unfortunately watched more Titans game than I wanted. You breathed on him wrong and he went down the first few weeks of the season.

Don't think this is reality.  Soft RBs don't put up elite YAC numbers muchless elite YAC numbers while facing 8+ men in the box.  Among RBs with more than 200 carries, no RB in the NFL faced more 8+ man boxes than Henry.  

Henry was 4th among RBs in yards after contact (second among runners).  He was second among RBs in broken tackles (37.... that's 15 more than Zeke). Even if you subtract the 99 yards for his long TD, he'd still have had a higher percentage of his rushing yards come after contact (52.5%)  than almost every starting RB in the league not named Barkley (56.3%), Elliott (58.5%), Gordon (54.4%) and I believe Chubb.  Gurley, Kamara, McCaffrey, Carson (tackle breaking machine), Mixon, Conner.....all had less success gaining yards after contact even if Henry's freakish 99 yard run, one of the most impressive displays of physicality you'll find in NFL history by a RB, is ignored.  

[Packerraymond]

14 minutes ago, SSG said:

Don't think this is reality.  Soft RBs don't put up elite YAC numbers muchless elite YAC numbers while facing 8+ men in the box.  Among RBs with more than 200 carries, no RB in the NFL faced more 8+ man boxes than Henry.  

Henry was 4th among RBs in yards after contact (second among runners).  He was second among RBs in broken tackles (37.... that's 15 more than Zeke). Even if you subtract the 99 yards for his long TD, he'd still have had a higher percentage of his rushing yards come after contact (52.5%)  than almost every starting RB in the league not named Barkley (56.3%), Elliott (58.5%), Gordon (54.4%) and I believe Chubb.  Gurley, Kamara, McCaffrey, Carson (tackle breaking machine), Mixon, Conner.....all had less success gaining yards after contact even if Henry's freakish 99 yard run, one of the most impressive displays of physicality you'll find in NFL history by a RB, is ignored.  

LIS earlier, guy had a downright bad season going before his entire season was made in one month. Discrediting LaFleur for benching a guy who couldn't crack 3.5 ypc is ridiculous.

[deathstar]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

LIS earlier, guy had a downright bad season going before his entire season was made in one month. Discrediting LaFleur for benching a guy who could crack 3.5 ypc is ridiculous.

Also not crediting LaFleur for his success is ridiculous..

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Also not crediting LaFleur for his success is ridiculous..

But he was on my fantasy team and didn't do good!

Edited July 23, 2019 by Norm

[SSG]

25 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

You realize through half the season Henry had 90 carries for 300 yards? If that's Jones numbers after week 8, I hope one of the William's is starting.

Henry's entire season was made vs Jax, that's 25% of his total yards. He played well in December. I'm far from ready to be sold on him. If that's your best playmaker, you don't have a good offense.

I fully realize that.  He was getting half as many snaps as Lewis.  When he was getting snaps he was getting a rush which resulted in a predictable offense and him having to run into more 8+ man boxes than any RB in the league.  He was essentially getting the snap share of a 3rd down back.  Despite seeing a small fraction of the snaps, he still out rushed Lewis in 5 of the 8 games.  Regardless of the number of rushing yards, I don't think you'd have been in favor of leaving the more dynamic 3 down back on the bench in favor of the plodding 3rd down back who's not having anymore success rushing despite seeing twice as many snaps.  

Given how dominate Henry looked in December once used right I'm not going to sell him short.  He's a freak athlete who showed he's capable of dominating if given the opportunity.  IMO 20 snaps a game isn't much of an opportunity for a pure runner.  

 

[SSG]

 

39 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Also not crediting LaFleur for his success is ridiculous..

What success?  The Titans offense got worse when he got there?  It was his usage of Henry that had his offense with a losing record entering December.  Certainly he deserves credit for throwing what he'd been doing for the previous 3/4 of the season out the window and featuring the guy he should have been featuring week 1 when he got 20 snaps.  Not sure there is an excuse to be made for LaFleur after watching Henry dominate once finally given the snaps and opportunity.  

 

 

[deathstar]

3 minutes ago, SSG said:

What success?  The Titans offense got worse when he got there?  It was his usage of Henry that had his offense with a losing record entering December.  Certainly he deserves credit for throwing what he'd been doing for the previous 3/4 of the season out the window and featuring the guy he should have been featuring week 1 when he got 20 snaps.  Not sure there is an excuse to be made for LaFleur after watching Henry dominate once finally given the snaps and opportunity.  

Not sure you're going to find much evidence that Henry wasn't given an opportunity.

Dude sometimes players are bad in some games and are better in others.

[{Family Ghost}]

8 minutes ago, SSG said:

  Not sure there is an excuse to be made for LaFleur after watching Henry dominate once finally given the snaps and opportunity.  

 

 

This is wrong.  Derrick Henry went on the record and basically apologized for his terrible performance in the first half of last season.  He got opportunities and just didn't do anything with it early on.  He came around in the second half and LaFleur rode him.  I'm sure he would have liked to do that in the first half of the season too, but Henry no-showed.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/11/01/derrick-henry-disappointed-he-hasnt-played-like-elite-back/

[SSG]

48 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

LIS earlier, guy had a downright bad season going before his entire season was made in one month. Discrediting LaFleur for benching a guy who couldn't crack 3.5 ypc is ridiculous.

Benched?  Derrick Henry seen 20 snaps in week 1 (would have been 21 if the 45 yard TD wouldn't have been called back for an offensive line penalty).  That's 30 fewer than Dion Lewis.  The idea that Henry was supposedly benched after some poor games is a complete fabrication. The first game Henry didn't start was the Indy game.  That was one week after a 5 yard per carry 2 TD performance against New England, a game in which Lewis was getting less than 3 yards a carry.  

I'm not discrediting Lafleur for this supposed benching.  I'm discrediting LaFleur because HIS offense was a dumpster fire.  I'm discrediting him for his usage of his best player and how suddenly the offense got better when the usage changed.  Matt LaFleur was on his way to being unemployed before Henry saved the Titans season.

[{Family Ghost}]

7 minutes ago, SSG said:

Benched?  Derrick Henry seen 20 snaps in week 1 (would have been 21 if the 45 yard TD wouldn't have been called back for an offensive line penalty).  That's 30 fewer than Dion Lewis.  The idea that Henry was supposedly benched after some poor games is a complete fabrication. The first game Henry didn't start was the Indy game.  That was one week after a 5 yard per carry 2 TD performance against New England, a game in which Lewis was getting less than 3 yards a carry.  

I'm not discrediting Lafleur for this supposed benching.  I'm discrediting LaFleur because HIS offense was a dumpster fire.  I'm discrediting him for his usage of his best player and how suddenly the offense got better when the usage changed.  Matt LaFleur was on his way to being unemployed before Henry saved the Titans season.

Derrick Henry on his week one performance.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000961972/article/derrick-henry-pissed-with-his-week-1-performance

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

But he was on my fantasy team and didn't do good!

Is www.firelafleur.com up yet?

[SSG]

8 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Not sure you're going to find much evidence that Henry wasn't given an opportunity.

Dude sometimes players are bad in some games and are better in others.

We'll agree to disagree.  I don't view 20 snaps a game for a 3 down RB as opportunity. 

 

While he certainly had some bad games where he got some opportunity (week 3 against Jacksonville), there aren't many instances.  He had multiple games last year with an extremely low snap count where he got the hand off in more than 70% of those snaps.  This lead to a predictable offense and required him to run into 8+ man boxes more than any RB in the league.  That right there is being set up to fail by your coaching staff.

I just don't understand putting all the blame on Henry while making LaFleur out to be this elite OC who was let down by "turds" like Derrick Henry and Corey Davis.  But LaFleur is a packer so making Henry out to be a putrid RB allows for the escape goat.  

 

[Packerraymond]

13 minutes ago, SSG said:

Benched?  Derrick Henry seen 20 snaps in week 1 (would have been 21 if the 45 yard TD wouldn't have been called back for an offensive line penalty).  That's 30 fewer than Dion Lewis.  The idea that Henry was supposedly benched after some poor games is a complete fabrication. The first game Henry didn't start was the Indy game.  That was one week after a 5 yard per carry 2 TD performance against New England, a game in which Lewis was getting less than 3 yards a carry.  

I'm not discrediting Lafleur for this supposed benching.  I'm discrediting LaFleur because HIS offense was a dumpster fire.  I'm discrediting him for his usage of his best player and how suddenly the offense got better when the usage changed.  Matt LaFleur was on his way to being unemployed before Henry saved the Titans season.

Ok Bob McGinn.