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Who said anything about a “secret role.” I understood AMF to be saying that he may contribute to the defense’s success in ways that aren’t immediately apparent to those watching the TV broadcast. 

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7 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

But when I watch teams like the Chiefs last night, where the defense just gets gashed over and over by literally the same play, I am glad the Ravens have a smart guy who can figure things out and communicate to his teammates.

The Ravens are susceptible to this. I'm specifically thinking of those over-the-middle throws to the TE or crossing WR that get the defense most of the time. It's like the Ravens defense has forgotten about that part of the field the last half decade+. 

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14 hours ago, sp6488 said:

Who said anything about a “secret role.” I understood AMF to be saying that he may contribute to the defense’s success in ways that aren’t immediately apparent to those watching the TV broadcast. 

He didn't specify anything close to that. "But if they pay him, it may be because the FO values things that he does that we as fans are not aware of". That's what he said.

Even if he was making a statement about the limitations of the regular broadcast, especially as it relates to fan analysis of players, it wouldn't hold up. People have access to All-22 Game Film. Narratives within the fan base about players, based off All-22 film, are incredibly common. A testament to it's prevalence. 

I'm not averse to a defense of Mosley, or even a sales pitch as to why we should potentially keep him. This "Blind Fan" concept should be dropped from any serious discussion about him or any other player though.

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21 hours ago, sp6488 said:

Who said anything about a “secret role.” I understood AMF to be saying that he may contribute to the defense’s success in ways that aren’t immediately apparent to those watching the TV broadcast. 

Like what, though? Mentoring? That would be the only thing I can think of. 

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7 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Like what, though? Mentoring? That would be the only thing I can think of. 

How he affects a play given the call and responsibilities. For example if he’s doing something that’s making RBs bounce an inordinate number of runs outside and the edge players end up with a tackle for no gain, it may not be immediately obvious to a viewer at home. 

That’s how I took the original comment. 

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1 hour ago, sp6488 said:

How he affects a play given the call and responsibilities. For example if he’s doing something that’s making RBs bounce an inordinate number of runs outside and the edge players end up with a tackle for no gain, it may not be immediately obvious to a viewer at home. 

That’s how I took the original comment. 

Idk, I would tend to believe that would easily be something you'd see on the All-22 watching Mosley. So unless everyone has missed something on the footage, I don't think it would be related to his play.

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1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Idk, I would tend to believe that would easily be something you'd see on the All-22 watching Mosley. So unless everyone has missed something on the footage, I don't think it would be related to his play.

What about pre-snap communication? Adjustments and audibles? Not everything is caught on the all-22. 

Again, I'm not stating for a fact that I know Mosley's value. But if the Ravens sign him to a relatively big contract, I would guess it's because they are aware of contributions that are less obvious to fans. I'm pretty much on board with you guys, the guy does not flash elite skills simply based on what I've seen.  

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On 1/21/2019 at 12:56 PM, DreamKid said:

You're giving Mosley too much credit, and selling the rest of our defense short. 

Lot's to think about from your post, but I am interested in this idea. Why is the Ravens defense an elite unit? Who are the elite players that make the unit so good? Aside from Humphrey, it is hard to determine. Michael Pierce is a beast but only played 37% of snaps. Carr and J. Smith are good but not great. People have complained about Weddle and Jefferson all year. Brandon Williams is one dimensional, and Urban and Wormley are nothing special. The LB corps has some pass rushers and speed but no great player.

So when I look at the Ravens defense, I see a unit that is playing above its talent level. It gels together well, there is teamwork and synergy. But why? I'm not sure, but I would hate to lose that cohesiveness, and maybe Mosley is the glue. Or maybe not. Just food for thought. 

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29 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

What about pre-snap communication? Adjustments and audibles? Not everything is caught on the all-22. 

Again, I'm not stating for a fact that I know Mosley's value. But if the Ravens sign him to a relatively big contract, I would guess it's because they are aware of contributions that are less obvious to fans. I'm pretty much on board with you guys, the guy does not flash elite skills simply based on what I've seen.  

Those things are handled by Weddle following the TNF Bengals game.

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15 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Lot's to think about from your post, but I am interested in this idea. Why is the Ravens defense an elite unit? Who are the elite players that make the unit so good? Aside from Humphrey, it is hard to determine. Michael Pierce is a beast but only played 37% of snaps. Carr and J. Smith are good but not great. People have complained about Weddle and Jefferson all year. Brandon Williams is one dimensional, and Urban and Wormley are nothing special. The LB corps has some pass rushers and speed but no great player.

So when I look at the Ravens defense, I see a unit that is playing above its talent level. It gels together well, there is teamwork and synergy. But why? I'm not sure, but I would hate to lose that cohesiveness, and maybe Mosley is the glue. Or maybe not. Just food for thought. 

We've had elite defenses here long before Mosley and we will continue to have elite defenses here after Mosley is gone (if he's not re-signed). The two aren't connected.

But to answer your question, we don't have any elite players on defense, but as a whole we really don't have any major weak links either, and it allows our defense to play together at a high level.

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13 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Those things are handled by Weddle following the TNF Bengals game.

I don’t disagree with your point, but Mosley has manned the green dot after that. I remember Wink making a statement that who wears the green dot helmet depends upon the team matchups and the tempo of their play.

Which my assumption is that the New Orleans game influenced that process. Our communication with Weddle having the green dot was just a little bit slower than with Mosley... due to him having to communicate but ultimately get into position just before the snap, but in games where the opposing team doesn’t have quite so quick of a tempo, they prefer Weddle manning the helmet because he’s the better field general and has better eyes to know what the opposing offense is trying to do.

So all that said, I would rather we get Peanut in there as a playmaker and have Kenny Young get more experience in there as a field general. He seems to be quite smart and I’d rather he get more experience before Weddle retires (hopefully we bring him back one more season). 

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17 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We've had elite defenses here long before Mosley and we will continue to have elite defenses here after Mosley is gone (if he's not re-signed). The two aren't connected.

If what you are saying is true, then the front office are truly experts in knowing what it makes to maintain an elite defense. 

So whatever they end up paying (or not paying) is justified. Because they are the ones who know which players make the defenses elite. 

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2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

If what you are saying is true, then the front office are truly experts in knowing what it makes to maintain an elite defense. 

So whatever they end up paying (or not paying) is justified. Because they are the ones who know which players make the defenses elite. 

It's less about who we re-sign and more about how we draft, IMO. Our FA acquisitions have largely sucked on defense, especially in the secondary with the exception of Brandon Carr. Our defense is and has always been built on drafting, and then letting players walk for comp picks and repeating that cycle.

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16 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Lot's to think about from your post, but I am interested in this idea. Why is the Ravens defense an elite unit? Who are the elite players that make the unit so good? Aside from Humphrey, it is hard to determine. Michael Pierce is a beast but only played 37% of snaps. Carr and J. Smith are good but not great. People have complained about Weddle and Jefferson all year. Brandon Williams is one dimensional, and Urban and Wormley are nothing special. The LB corps has some pass rushers and speed but no great player.

So when I look at the Ravens defense, I see a unit that is playing above its talent level. It gels together well, there is teamwork and synergy. But why? I'm not sure, but I would hate to lose that cohesiveness, and maybe Mosley is the glue. Or maybe not. Just food for thought. 

It isn't hard to determine. We have the top CB group in the NFL. Carr played out of his mind this year, a legitimate top 10 CB performance. Marlon was awarded the top coverage grade in all the NFL by Player Profiler. Tavon largely played great. Jimmy was inconsistent but it didn't matter all that much because of our depth. 

This isn't complicated.

It's a passing league, and we're more equipped to stop the passing of other teams than maybe anyone else. With an Elite group of CBs, not only in depth but also talent. They propped up an under performing safety duo & helped a decent but not great pass rush unit hit home at a useful frequency.

Michael Pierce was used correctly. He is primarily a run defense asset. It isn't a running league. He is usually subbed out on obvious passing downs for a downshifting ZDS.

We have Elite chips to use against the Run & Pass, making life very difficult for the opposition. This downplaying of our talent is odd.

I don't think in anyway the defense played above it's talent level, and of the lapses we did have - poor communication and or confusion was often the cause.

 

A strong talent pool, great coaching, and veteran leadership across multiple positions will often yield an exceptional defense.

CJ certainly is an above average talent and a valuable locker room presence, but I don't think in any way he's the glue holding this unit together. I think he fulfills the typical duties of a LB1, an important position within any defense, to the best of his abilities. He's certainly replaceable, as we've seen, and it all just comes down to how the FO weighs his cost to impact.

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