WSH Coach Changes: O'Connell to OC/Rob Ryan (yes him) to LBs coach

[Woz]

43 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Also, Gruden didn't change the Redskins D to a 3-4, that was all Shanahan. That was pre-Gruden.

I believe @naptownskinsfan meant that Ryan changed the Bills defense from a 4-3 to a 3-4 because that's what Ryan knows and runs. In other words, focusing on his system over the talent  he has at his disposal. Hence, his follow on comment that he would fit right in with Jay.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

I believe @naptownskinsfan meant that Ryan changed the Bills defense from a 4-3 to a 3-4 because that's what Ryan knows and runs. In other words, focusing on his system over the talent  he has at his disposal. Hence, his follow on comment that he would fit right in with Jay.

He said something about Gruden too, but I think I took that part of his post out of context.

[naptownskinsfan]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

One player? Great sample size. I'd say Zo & Brown would disagree. Zo had 12.5 sacks, Brown led the league in tackles and wa a pro bowler.

Also, Gruden didn't change the Redskins D to a 3-4, that was all Shanahan. That was pre-Gruden.

Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus complained about it as well- https://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

Why on God's crusty pie would you switch defenses when you have two guys getting paid $180 million combined who excelled in a 4-3 defense?  Both Ryan brothers would fit right in with Gruden. 

[naptownskinsfan]

And then there is this: 

Quote

Ryan is a defensive expert. Yet, he took a top-rated defense and has ruined it in his two seasons in Buffalo. His defense has allowed an average of 34 points a game in Buffalo’s last seven losses. His offense is 11 points shy of reaching 400 points this season; no Buffalo offense has done that since 1998. His offense gained 589 yards, scored 31 points, and did not commit a turnover, and Buffalo still lost.

The Bills defense is a scam. No one can recognize it as a Rex Ryan defense.

Some of the Bills players say that Ryan has not been as involved in it. Some of the Bills players say he has given too much defensive authority to his brother, Rob. The entire setup in practice, scheme, and execution has been dysfunctional this season. This was after Ryan declared in mid-June that the Bills "won the offseason" in their camps and how excited he was about this group.

https://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/26/14082156/hue-jackson-browns-rex-ryan-mistake-bills-hot-seat-nfl-week-16

So yeah, we let a coach go who immediately gets hired by the Packers, a much better, much more stable organization, to hire a guy who is two years removed from coaching and who helped preside over one of the biggest defensive unit collapses in recent memory.  Yeah, let's get excited about it!  

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

And then there is this: 

So yeah, we let a coach go who immediately gets hired by the Packers, a much better, much more stable organization, to hire a guy who is two years removed from coaching and who helped preside over one of the biggest defensive unit collapses in recent memory.  Yeah, let's get excited about it!  

Wait, the same guy who one again put Brown & Zo in place to have career years? 

I don't see what there is to complain about.

And the packers defense has been trash for a while. They're percived to be a well run organization but if they didn't have Rodgers, they’d be bottom feeders.

You're defending a guy who presided over the most disappointing position group of the defense in 2018, outside of Kerrigan, the entire LB corp regressed. 

You're endorsing that? Our starting LBs couldn’t cover and surprisingly were abused in the run game the second half of the year, which, was supposedly their strong suit. Olivadotti’s LB group was such a disappointment that 3 of the 4 starters probably won't be back - PSmith, Foster and Brown.

[naptownskinsfan]

22 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Wait, the same guy who one again put Brown & Zo in place to have career years? 

I don't see what there is to complain about.

And the packers defense has been trash for a while. They're percived to be a well run organization but if they didn't have Rodgers, they’d be bottom feeders.

You're defending a guy who presided over the most disappointing position group of the defense in 2018, outside of Kerrigan, the entire LB corp regressed. 

You're endorsing that? Our starting LBs couldn’t cover and surprisingly were abused in the run game the second half of the year, which, was supposedly their strong suit. Olivadotti’s LB group was such a disappointment that 3 of the 4 starters probably won't be back - PSmith, Foster and Brown.

You don't see what to complain about?  Ryan and Horton have been out of the NFL for two years.  Olivadotti wanted to leave, and was immediately hired by a new coach.  He's a wanted guy in coaching circles.  Torrian Gray took an offer with a top power 5 school, he's a coach who has proven himself at both levels and was a wanted candidate.  

Once again, the Redskins are forced to take retreads instead of good coaches who are actually wanted by other teams.  And Snyder has only himself to blame for all of it.  No one wants to come here and add a huge black mark on their resume.   

The group was a disappointment, but Preston Smith continues to be an on-again/off-again player, and even at that, pass-rushers are at a premium and he will get paid too much money to consider bringing back.  Mason Foster shouldn't even be starting, that's on the front office for not improving the talent level at the position, and also on the defensive coordinator for not scheming to appropriately hide his shortcomings (i.e. pass protection.) . Brown should've never been re-signed in the first place, but guess what, good players don't want to come to the Redskins unless we overpay.  Coaches can only do so much with the talent they are given, and for years we have criminally ignored the evolution of the ILB position and what that position needs out of players to be successful in the current NFL climate.  

[turtle28]

On 2/9/2019 at 4:02 PM, naptownskinsfan said:

Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus complained about it as well- https://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

Why on God's crusty pie would you switch defenses when you have two guys getting paid $180 million combined who excelled in a 4-3 defense?  Both Ryan brothers would fit right in with Gruden. 

Of course Mario Williams did, he's strictly a 4-3 LDE. He left Houston when they brought the 3-4 to Houston too, but their defense sucked w/o him, oh wait...

[turtle28]

On 2/9/2019 at 4:02 PM, naptownskinsfan said:

Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus complained about it as well- https://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

Why on God's crusty pie would you switch defenses when you have two guys getting paid $180 million combined who excelled in a 4-3 defense?  Both Ryan brothers would fit right in with Gruden. 

Of course Mario Williams did, he's strictly a 4-3 LDE. He left Houston when they brought the 3-4 to Houston too, but their defense sucked w/o him, oh wait...

I don't know why Dareus complained he played in a 3-4 at Alabama for 3 years and got him drafted 3rd overall.

Seems dumb for him to complain but thats why they ended up trading him to Jax. He got to fat, too out of shape and didn't live io to his contract.  

They basically paid him to leave two years ago.

[naptownskinsfan]

But again, why would you change the top defense in the league to a 3-4, when you have $180 million invested in two top defensive playmakers who were better 4-3 players?  In two seasons, the top defense in the league went down to mediocre levels.  These coaches believe too much in their own systems, plain and simple.  Adrian Peterson has always had a fullback, and do the Redskins invest in one?  Absolutely not, why change the offense for one player- even one who was a game-changer early on?  

That's why Belichick is the best- he continually adds and subtracts from his offensive playbook, and will go to the players' strengths, and was one of the first to adapt to up-tempo, no huddle style from college.  He's also primarily used the 3-4 defense, but has used the 4-3 at times with both the Patriots and Browns when the personnel were more attuned to that. 

Great coaches adapt their style and systems for the players they have available to them, and they don't try to force square pegs into round holes, especially when those square pegs cost $180 million. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

But again, why would you change the top defense in the league to a 3-4, when you have $180 million invested in two top defensive playmakers who were better 4-3 players?  In two seasons, the top defense in the league went down to mediocre levels.  These coaches believe too much in their own systems, plain and simple.  Adrian Peterson has always had a fullback, and do the Redskins invest in one?  Absolutely not, why change the offense for one player- even one who was a game-changer early on?  

That's why Belichick is the best- he continually adds and subtracts from his offensive playbook, and will go to the players' strengths, and was one of the first to adapt to up-tempo, no huddle style from college.  He's also primarily used the 3-4 defense, but has used the 4-3 at times with both the Patriots and Browns when the personnel were more attuned to that. 

Great coaches adapt their style and systems for the players they have available to them, and they don't try to force square pegs into round holes, especially when those square pegs cost $180 million. 

You'd have to ask the GM & owner who hired Rex Ryan. 

They knew what they were getting when they hired them.

Rex had never coached a 4-3 defense in his entire career as a defensive coordinator dating back to Baltimore.

Peterson obviously did fine w/o a FB, he went over 1,000 yards.

[naptownskinsfan]

14 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You'd have to ask the GM & owner who hired Rex Ryan. 

They knew what they were getting when they hired them.

Rex had never coached a 4-3 defense in his entire career as a defensive coordinator dating back to Baltimore.

Peterson obviously did fine w/o a FB, he went over 1,000 yards.

Doesn't matter what Rex Ryan coached, you put your talent in the best possible position to win.  If that means shuttering your system and hiring a 4-3 defensive coordinator, that's what you do.  It's why Belichick has five rings, and Rex Ryan is out of football.  

Sure, 1,000 yards is great, but how many times did we sputter in the red zone because we couldn't make the short yardage plays?  How many games has Gruden lost over the years because he can't run the clock out without a lead blocker?  We were a "post" field goal miss away from OT against the Cowboys, with all of the momentum behind Dakota.  You have a fullback and Adrian Peterson, you can run the clock out on first and 10.  But you aren't going to do that in today's NFL trying to run from the spread with all of the defensive coordinators knowing you have to run to keep the clock going.  

[turtle28]

Yes it does matter. Rex is a 3-4 defensive coach, if you're the GM and you didn't want to change defensive  schemes then don't hire REX RYAN! HELLO! It's that simple! It really is!

Same with the Redskins, if Snyder was told by Shanahan that he wanted to switch to a 3-4 and Snyder and company didn't agree with that switch, they shouldn't have hired him in 2010.  They must have been cool with it though bc they hired him.

[MikeT14]

I'm intrigued by the Tim Rattay signing. Fresh, new blood. 

[RSkinGM]

46 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

I'm intrigued by the Tim Rattay signing. Fresh, new blood. 

I was intrigued with the Jim Zorn signing . 

[naptownskinsfan]

8 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

I'm intrigued by the Tim Rattay signing. Fresh, new blood. 

Yes, but going from the independent scene, to LA Tech, to the NFL is quite a task.  The important thing is communication and how to relate to players, so picking a QB coach from the college ranks, who also has experience as an NFL QB, tells me that we are going to be making an early draft investment in a QB.