El Ramster Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 This is Pete all day. He develop a gang of HOF and boasted one of the best defenses in modern NFL history. Every year they’re DCs would get picked off and he kept chucking along.. This is so dumb though This is Seans second year and his record is extremely elite for a young coach who inherited a crap roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Pete Carroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 15 hours ago, patriotsheatyan said: Who is the best NFCW HC? Pete Carroll. He's simply doing more with less, and he's done it over a longer period of time with more turnover and change. Now, it's a bit unfair because for all we know the Rams could win the Superbowl this year and McVay's legacy will increase, but to match what Carroll's done since he arrived in Seattle McVay's got a long ways to go. It's simply too early to evaluate the legacies between the coaches, so if we evaluate who is currently better, it's still Carroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, TheVillain112 said: One HC has Russell Wilson and decided they needed to run the ball more... That's always been Caroll's philosophy on offense though - run the ball to win the game. This year they went WAY overboard with their scheme for reasons I cannot explain, but it's not like it should be a surprise (especially after last year where Wilson was literally their entire offense) that they wanted to run the ball more this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: That's always been Caroll's philosophy on offense though - run the ball to win the game. This year they went WAY overboard with their scheme for reasons I cannot explain, but it's not like it should be a surprise (especially after last year where Wilson was literally their entire offense) that they wanted to run the ball more this year. Think he’s talking about the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, El ramster said: Think he’s talking about the Super Bowl. The Superbowl where they decided to pass and not run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Pete Carroll. He's simply doing more with less, and he's done it over a longer period of time with more turnover and change. Now, it's a bit unfair because for all we know the Rams could win the Superbowl this year and McVay's legacy will increase, but to match what Carroll's done since he arrived in Seattle McVay's got a long ways to go. It's simply too early to evaluate the legacies between the coaches, so if we evaluate who is currently better, it's still Carroll. If we evaluate who is "currently" better instead of legacies, it's McVay. The idea that Pete is doing "more" with less is kind of funny. It's hard to argue that the guy who went 10-6 and got swept by McVay's 13-3 team did "more" this year. Further, McVay took the division away from Carroll last year with a team that went 4-12 the year before under Fisher. Simply put, McVay has done more each of the past two years, and it's hard to argue that he didn't start with less. If you want to discuss legacies, it's clear that Pete is better at this point. If you want to talk about how is CURRENTLY the better coach, I don't see much argument for Pete. And that's not because Pete isn't a tremendous coach. He's top 5 in the NFL imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVillain112 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: That's always been Caroll's philosophy on offense though - run the ball to win the game. This year they went WAY overboard with their scheme for reasons I cannot explain, but it's not like it should be a surprise (especially after last year where Wilson was literally their entire offense) that they wanted to run the ball more this year. So I'm not a diehard Throw all the time, rushing doesn't matter type of guy. But I disagree wholeheartedly with being hard headed with offense play calling. What I mean by that is that if the defense is going to put 8 or more defenders in the box, you shouldn't keep running into it because that's your philosophy. If there's 6 players in the box, run the ball (unless you're in hurry up, or 3rd and long type situations). If there's 8, throw the ball. You have people like Bucky Brooks talking about rushing yards doesn't matter just the attempts. And Pete Carroll saying the issue was they didn't convert the 3rd and longs. If your strategy is consistently putting you in 3rd and long situation (low percentage of converting downs), maybe switch up the strategy? I can't believe how hard headed some people are to an 'identity'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said: So I'm not a diehard Throw all the time, rushing doesn't matter type of guy. But I disagree wholeheartedly with being hard headed with offense play calling. What I mean by that is that if the defense is going to put 8 or more defenders in the box, you shouldn't keep running into it because that's your philosophy. If there's 6 players in the box, run the ball (unless you're in hurry up, or 3rd and long type situations). If there's 8, throw the ball. You have people like Bucky Brooks talking about rushing yards doesn't matter just the attempts. And Pete Carroll saying the issue was they didn't convert the 3rd and longs. If your strategy is consistently putting you in 3rd and long situation (low percentage of converting downs), maybe switch up the strategy? I can't believe how hard headed some people are to an 'identity'... This is familiar... 'It started Week 1, after the Seahawks lost to the Broncos by three points despite staying close for the entire game. “Not enough [rushing],” Pete Carroll told reporters by way of explanation for the loss. “The reason was we didn’t covert on third down. It’s just football. That leaves you where you don’t get your next series.”' I think it's both 'identity' and sticking to what works. They WERE the number 1 rushing team all season, so it stands to reason that a) that's what they do, and b) he was expecting it to come through and serve him well in the end. It was too much though, I agree, he should have started to sling it more in the 4th (at the latest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: If we evaluate who is "currently" better instead of legacies, it's McVay. The idea that Pete is doing "more" with less is kind of funny. It's hard to argue that the guy who went 10-6 and got swept by McVay's 13-3 team did "more" this year. Further, McVay took the division away from Carroll last year with a team that went 4-12 the year before under Fisher. Simply put, McVay has done more each of the past two years, and it's hard to argue that he didn't start with less. If you want to discuss legacies, it's clear that Pete is better at this point. If you want to talk about how is CURRENTLY the better coach, I don't see much argument for Pete. And that's not because Pete isn't a tremendous coach. He's top 5 in the NFL imo. The problem with your theory here is you're ignoring just how bad of a coach Jeff Fisher was. He already had Goff, Gurley and Aaron Donald - he just implemented a system on offense that utilized the former 2's talents to the extreme. It's too early to evaluate the draft choices that were made, but McVay hasn't turned nothing picks into Hall of Famers yet and hasn't consistently gotten units to play at a darn-near top level despite constant turnover at the coordinator and position. And yes, I do think Pete Carroll did more this year with less. They were expected to finish dead last in the NFCW and be picking top 3. The Rams were expected to be the best team in the NFL. Both of those things didn't happen. Furthermore, Pete Carroll completely overhauled his defense and still the unit was 14th in DVOA with completely new players at basically every position except Frank Clark, Jarran Reed and Bobby Wagner. McVay was given great pieces to work with that were being terribly managed, and has utilized them brilliantly. Carroll was given garbage, completely overhauled it with his own system and turned scrap heaps into Hall of Famers and this year took a rebuilding team and made them a playoff team. Again, we're debating over two top-5 coaches but IMHO McVay is simply the flavor of the week, whereas Carroll has simply done a more impressive job when you look at both legacy and what he's doing currently. 1 hour ago, TheVillain112 said: So I'm not a diehard Throw all the time, rushing doesn't matter type of guy. But I disagree wholeheartedly with being hard headed with offense play calling. What I mean by that is that if the defense is going to put 8 or more defenders in the box, you shouldn't keep running into it because that's your philosophy. If there's 6 players in the box, run the ball (unless you're in hurry up, or 3rd and long type situations). If there's 8, throw the ball. I can't agree more. I watched Seattle do it, and then I watched Baltimore do it. It drove me insane watching these people beat their heads into a wall just to maintain their "identity". 1 hour ago, TheVillain112 said: You have people like Bucky Brooks talking about rushing yards doesn't matter just the attempts. And Pete Carroll saying the issue was they didn't convert the 3rd and longs. If your strategy is consistently putting you in 3rd and long situation (low percentage of converting downs), maybe switch up the strategy? I can't believe how hard headed some people are to an 'identity'... Again I completely agree. The Seahawks I think were the WORST offenders this year at running the ball on 2nd and long, which in turn sets them up for 3rd and long because running on 2nd and long is a very low percentage success rate. Seahawks don't care. They're going to live and die by running the ball until they absolutely don't have to - and this philosophy doesn't make much sense when you have a top 5 QB who has shown over his career to be among the deadliest and most efficient QB's in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVRamsFan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 15 hours ago, showtime said: There are teams all the time who are really good and never win a Super Bowl. The 49ers team was very very good during the same time the Seahawks were and never won. The Chargers went 14-2 one year with MVP LT and didn't win. Aaron Rodgers has led some great Packers team that didn't win. The 2007 Patriots were 19-0 and didn't win. A lot of teams produce great records during the regular season, but never win a championship. Seattle had a great team and they won. The Rams have a great team right now, but it remains to be seen whether or not they can win a championship. McVay entered the division when the Seahawks were on the downswing and they have won the division two years in a row, but what comes of that? We'll see here over the next couple weeks. McVay entered the division with Carroll making the playoffs what 5 years in a row and multiple division titles and super bowl appearances. While McVay too over a team that maybe won 20 games total in those five years. Pretending the Rams were in a better position than the Rams at that point is a losing stance. If if we’re talking body of work absolutely Petey has a better record. Last two years since McVay showed up? Petey did an impressive job this year but back to back division titles and a 3-1 h2h record probably gives McVay an edge right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: It's too early to evaluate the draft choices that were made, but McVay hasn't turned nothing picks into Hall of Famers yet and hasn't consistently gotten units to play at a darn-near top level despite constant turnover at the coordinator and position. Are you high? The Rams went from #32 in the NFL in scoring in 2016 to #1 in 2017. They ended up #2 in the NFL this year at 32.9 PPG behind that absurd Chiefs offense. LOL at that nonsense. As for picks, Cooper Kupp looks like a star. Josh Reynolds put up good numbers after stepping in for Kupp. Robert Woods just posted a 1200 yard season. Austin Blythe, a guy we claimed off waivers, became a very good starting OG. Havenstein, who struggled mightily in 2016, has developed into one of the best RTs in the NFL. Jamon Brown went from being benched for guys who aren't in the NFL to a solid starting OG. And Joe Noteboom has looked good whenever we've needed him to step in for Whitworth. Gerald Everett is the only guy who hasn't performed as well as hoped, and even he has shown flashes. And that's not even getting to Goff and Gurley. You're making a very weak argument here. Quote The problem with your theory here is you're ignoring just how bad of a coach Jeff Fisher was. He already had Goff, Gurley and Aaron Donald - he just implemented a system on offense that utilized the former 2's talents to the extreme. Laughable argument. Jeff Fisher was absolutely atrocious with the offensive side of the ball, but there's a reason why he was known as Mr. 7-9/8-8. He wasn't Steve Spagnuolo. People resort to this excuse to justify not giving McVay credit. It's very weird because people love to give McVay credit when it is time to evaluate Goff, but when it's time to evaluate McVay, he just inherited a good team from Jeff Fisher. Ridiculous. By this logic, Pete Carroll deserves no credit. It's all Russell Wilson. Quote And yes, I do think Pete Carroll did more this year with less. They were expected to finish dead last in the NFCW and be picking top 3. The Rams were expected to be the best team in the NFL. Both of those things didn't happen. Furthermore, Pete Carroll completely overhauled his defense and still the unit was 14th in DVOA with completely new players at basically every position except Frank Clark, Jarran Reed and Bobby Wagner. He literally cannot have done "more" with less unless you don't know what happened in the NFL this year. He did less than McVay. There's no arguing that. McVay's team had the better record, won the division, and swept Carroll's team. He did less with less. We all think it's impressive that Seattle made the playoffs, but you're also conveniently selling McVay short. Quote McVay was given great pieces to work with that were being terribly managed, and has utilized them brilliantly. Carroll was given garbage, completely overhauled it with his own system and turned scrap heaps into Hall of Famers and this year took a rebuilding team and made them a playoff team. Again, we're debating over two top-5 coaches but IMHO McVay is simply the flavor of the week, whereas Carroll has simply done a more impressive job when you look at both legacy and what he's doing currently. Wow. McVay inherits a 4-12 team going into 2017 that hadn't been to the playoffs since 2004, had a winning season since 2003, or a .500 season since 2008, but he got great pieces? McVay is truly a victim of his own success. I'm blown away at the mental gymnastics being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Let's make this thing very simple for the people reading the thread. You have your choice of Pete Carroll and Sean McVay as your team's Head Coach going into this off-season. Which do you choose to lead your team going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 When I said the Seahawks were on the downswing isn't it obvious what I'm referring to? The team had won the Superbowl and had a lot of great players. Over the years, those players started to deteriorate and many left the team. Percy Harvin Michael Bennett Richard Sherman Kam Chancellor Marshawn Lynch Earl Thomas Cliff Avril Brandon Browner, etc That's a lot of talent and leadership to lose. The Seahawks were predicted by damn near everyone to be rebuilding and to be one of the worst teams in the league. The reason is because they lost so many players. The famed Legion of Boom is literally gone. There's not a single player there anymore. The defensive line has been reworked. Carroll did an amazing job this season, but when I say the team was on the downswing... They won a Superbowl and made it to another Superbowl - The team started to go down hill after that. It's not a knock on anyone, that just happens to most teams who are a championship team. Over the years players leave, players decline due to age, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Let's make this thing very simple for the people reading the thread. You have your choice of Pete Carroll and Sean McVay as your team's Head Coach going into this off-season. Which do you choose to lead your team going forward? You think if the coaches were reversed last season and Pete Carroll was coach of the Rams and Sean McVay was coach of the Seahawks that the Seahawks would have won the division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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