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DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC


Broncofan

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6 hours ago, germ-x said:

I actually disagree with this.

There is nothing that suggests that Sean McVay is some extradorinary leader.  He has a great scheme with great talent offensively and he was hired to coach one side of the ball, not an entire team, that’s why Wade Phillips was brought in.  McVay half the time isn’t even paying attention to what is going on defensively and is sitting with Goff figuring out what they’re going to do offensively.

Personally, I think Xs and Os mean more now than they ever have.  The “leader of men” is stuff of the past.  The game has evolved way past getting guys to run through walls for you and is far more about scheming guys into positions to be successful on both sides of the ball.

 

That's fair enough, but I think you can look at this another way.

Is having the trust to defer important parts of the job (defense, special teams) to others, accepting their knowledge outweighs yours, not a trait of good leadership? Personally, I think it is and I can tell you many (failed) Head Coaches in the NFL who would never, ever be willing to accept this.

I also don't think it's true to suggest that we've heard nothing to suggest Sean McVay is a great leader. There's plenty of footage out there to show the way he interacts with players, plenty of quotes from not only current but past Rams players, Coaches, etc. There's enough videos on youtube to show what personality he has (I am not trying to make out like he's Vince Lombardi based on a couple of youtube videos; more just to give an insight on how personable he appears).

With the amount of player turnover teams have in the modern era, I think having the ability to mesh different players each year from a personality perspective is absolutely vital. You can't just put 45 players in a wonderful scheme and beat everyone. The game requires a level of effort and physicality to win consistently and I think having a Coach who can create an atmosphere that players enjoy is key in getting them to put in that effort.

I also think you're misinterpreting what I mean by leadership. You're making the assumption that leadership means big speeches, chest pounding and cliches all over the place. That isn't what I mean. Having the ability to get these fully grown men and a Coaching staff of 20 something people to all buy in to your philosophy and approach to Coaching is leadership, without any doubt.

Again, I am not saying you are definitively wrong because this is definitely a subjective topic; your opinion just differs to mine.

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Speaking of FA CB's, I expect us to target Bryce Callahan. He was ranked extremley high by PFF last season and has seen all his success come in Vic's scheme. At 27 he is in his prime, would prefer a few years younger but CB's are going to be expensive and Bryce may prove to be a value. He has started at CB since a rookie and improved each season. Vic seems to rotate his CB's quite a bit, as Bryce played only 64% of snaps last season, but his PFF ranking was #8 among all CB's. Not the biggest, but a beast in run support and elite as a CB in blitzing (6TFL, 5 QB hits, 2 sacks last season). I have him in my upcoming mock, and hope we could lock him up for 7-9M per.

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26 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Speaking of FA CB's, I expect us to target Bryce Callahan. He was ranked extremley high by PFF last season and has seen all his success come in Vic's scheme. At 27 he is in his prime, would prefer a few years younger but CB's are going to be expensive and Bryce may prove to be a value. He has started at CB since a rookie and improved each season. Vic seems to rotate his CB's quite a bit, as Bryce played only 64% of snaps last season, but his PFF ranking was #8 among all CB's. Not the biggest, but a beast in run support and elite as a CB in blitzing (6TFL, 5 QB hits, 2 sacks last season). I have him in my upcoming mock, and hope we could lock him up for 7-9M per.

Strong call on Callahan as one of the best FA CB's out there.   The only reason I didn't think we'd target him - he's great in the slot.     He's not played as much outside (although he's also really adapted to being a blitzing CB too, a skill that's under-appreciated).

I don't mind the $ range, and obviously Fangio would know and love him, so there's that.   It does bum me out that Elway's talking about win-now - because a Chris Harris trade and signing of Callahan, while it wouldn't help us immediately, could accelerate a rebuild (we'd still need to get 1-2 more CB's, but the draft capital with a Harris trade would help there) - as we'd get younger and cheaper with more draft assets helping the roster.   I'd love to see that, as we'd still be strong at slot CB, but gain a small amount of cap space, but get younger, and I'd imagine we could get a late-teens/20's range 1st for Harris from a contender in need of CB.

But that's not happening with a win-now team.    Still, after Darby, I think Callahan's one of the best younger CB's out there, and given the familiarity,  I could see it for sure.  Only a matter of if he can excel more outside.   Darby's a better fit to match talents with Harris, albeit with way more $ likely needed, and likely to be in heavy demand.  It's why if we aren't going QB 1.10, then CB at 1.10 makes a ton of sense - I can see a Baker being there.

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26 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Speaking of FA CB's, I expect us to target Bryce Callahan. He was ranked extremley high by PFF last season and has seen all his success come in Vic's scheme. At 27 he is in his prime, would prefer a few years younger but CB's are going to be expensive and Bryce may prove to be a value. He has started at CB since a rookie and improved each season. Vic seems to rotate his CB's quite a bit, as Bryce played only 64% of snaps last season, but his PFF ranking was #8 among all CB's. Not the biggest, but a beast in run support and elite as a CB in blitzing (6TFL, 5 QB hits, 2 sacks last season). I have him in my upcoming mock, and hope we could lock him up for 7-9M per.

Only if he endorses Callahan Auto Parts. 

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Strong call on Callahan as one of the best FA CB's out there.   The only reason I didn't think we'd target him - he's great in the slot.     He's not played as much outside (although he's also really adapted to being a blitzing CB too, a skill that's under-appreciated).

IDK, we play 3CB quite often and the market value for outside guys always eclipses that of inside guys. I dont really like the idea of paying more than 8M for a CB, given the state of this team. Callahan at 8M, even if playing only 65-75% of the snaps, would be a great signing IMO. The dynamics he bring in the run game and as a blitzer, not to mention he is lockdown in the slot, could really give this team another dimension. I think his play in Chicago has been good enough to give him some chances on the outside too. If he doesnt work there, we have an elite slot guy and can make Yiadom sink or swim.

Darby will be out of our price range, hell Calhoun might be too.

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47 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

IDK, we play 3CB quite often and the market value for outside guys always eclipses that of inside guys. I dont really like the idea of paying more than 8M for a CB, given the state of this team. Callahan at 8M, even if playing only 65-75% of the snaps, would be a great signing IMO. The dynamics he bring in the run game and as a blitzer, not to mention he is lockdown in the slot, could really give this team another dimension. I think his play in Chicago has been good enough to give him some chances on the outside too. If he doesnt work there, we have an elite slot guy and can make Yiadom sink or swim.

Darby will be out of our price range, hell Calhoun might be too.

We DID play that way...who knows what Fangio is going to do. 

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2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

IDK, we play 3CB quite often and the market value for outside guys always eclipses that of inside guys. I dont really like the idea of paying more than 8M for a CB, given the state of this team. Callahan at 8M, even if playing only 65-75% of the snaps, would be a great signing IMO. The dynamics he bring in the run game and as a blitzer, not to mention he is lockdown in the slot, could really give this team another dimension. I think his play in Chicago has been good enough to give him some chances on the outside too. If he doesnt work there, we have an elite slot guy and can make Yiadom sink or swim.

Darby will be out of our price range, hell Calhoun might be too.

I agree we play 3CB so much you have to have a great slot CB.   It’s just Harris still goes to the slot about half the snaps and he’s elite there.  Not quite as good outside IMO.  Ideally we develop an outside shutdown CB to pair with Harris.   Or trade Harris and really commit to a future build with a younger Callahan and cheaper assets acquired with a Harris trade.   That’s why the win-now talk doesn’t fit as well that scenario doesn’t seem at all likely.  

I also agree they might be out of our price range regardless.   It’s not a great FA CB market.  

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51 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I agree we play 3CB so much you have to have a great slot CB.   It’s just Harris still goes to the slot about half the snaps and he’s elite there.  Not quite as good outside IMO.  Ideally we develop an outside shutdown CB to pair with Harris.   Or trade Harris and really commit to a future build with a younger Callahan and cheaper assets acquired with a Harris trade.   That’s why the win-now talk doesn’t fit as well that scenario doesn’t seem at all likely.  

I also agree they might be out of our price range regardless.   It’s not a great FA CB market.  

Trading Harris would be an atrocious move.

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15 hours ago, Broncofan said:

 

McVay is an exceptional case IMO because he has both the originality and the communication skills.  And they complement each other really well.  

2x on live TV / radio he’s been asked by call-in / fans on specific game calls from 2-3 years prior.  And he’s nailed the exact play.  That photographic memory combined with design genius is not normal.  At all.  And it explains a ton of his success.  The term is often overused but here it’s truly a genius level of recall and design.   

But it would also be meaningless if he couldn’t reach his players.   And the O design responsibilities and spread-the-wealth approach in the passing game that he uses requires a full buy-in from his guys.   And they all comment on how well he gets everyone on the same page.   That’s the part that’s softer to analyze but in today’s era of star athletes (who often yield as much power as many coaches do and certainly aren’t afraid of), it’s absolutely necessary.   And that part is hard to predict, and a big part of whether or not a great OC/DC mind will succeed as a HC.  

I mean for all of his underachievement this year, we still recognize Wade Phillips has had an amazing DC career.   And it’s well earned.   But we also all recognize he was a disaster as a HC.   His skill set didn’t translate with the additional responsibilities that a HC holds.  McVay’s success is unlikely to be just due to X and O’s or great leadership.   He probably owns both sets.  But we should recognize how bright of a mind he is.   That type of intellectual ability is not at all normal.  

But, unlike some bright minds who aren’t even as gifted as he is - he doesn’t act like the smartest guy in the room and turn guys off. That is part of how he gets such buy-in.   But yet stil gets everyone on the same page in his vision but without making them think he’s dictating to them.   It’s an underrated skill.  My way or highway guys don’t last in today’s era without complete org buy-in (BB & NE).   Gase is the guy I think of as how it wears out (as I think he has overachieved with what he has been given, but also definitely rubs many ppl the wrong way).  

Very well said about McVay. Also add-in that the LA locker room has a lot of big personalities, guys who don't have the best reputations as team-first players, some who are even instigators. And he's gotten that group to buy-in 100%. It's been nothing short of remarkable. That's why all these teams looking for the next Sean McVay, and hiring some young offensive genius type (I'm looking at you, Steve Keim) are more likely going to get burned than find the next big thing. 

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21 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I'll tell you what elway has said he wants continuity on offense.  So Kubiak being the OC I thinks gonna be for a couple of years. And Gary will be a huge part helping select the next QB. He'll have more influence than your average OC. 

This gives me hope whatever young qb we get won't be an Elway toolsy qb special. 

For what it's worth, the QB Kubiak reportedly pounded the table for was Case Keenum, who's limitations both physically and mentally, bare a lot of responsibility for this team being in the shape that it's in. So be careful what you wish for. 

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9 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Is having the trust to defer important parts of the job (defense, special teams) to others, accepting their knowledge outweighs yours, not a trait of good leadership? Personally, I think it is and I can tell you many (failed) Head Coaches in the NFL who would never, ever be willing to accept this.

This is also an excellent point, as most are from lomax.

We saw first hand here in Denver what happens when a young coach tries to exert total control over single every aspect of a team, no matter how minute. The results were disastrous. One of McVay's strengths is exactly what is pointed out here. 

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Sounds like we're getting the band back together. 

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Other assistants to consider are those on the offensive side. While Gary Kubiak’s future isn’t yet set in stone as offensive coordinator, it has been reported that two assistants he would be looking to bring in immediately are long-time cohorts Rick Dennison and Brian Pariani.

 

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