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Broncofan

DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

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Dear lord, The Fan is now parroting the "Belchick, Reid and Carrol are in their 60s" mantra. 

This is borderline insufferable. 

The fact that Carroll is older than the other two makes me want to immediatley start making tremendously different life choices. Dude looks closer to 40 than 70 IMO.

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4 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Dear lord, The Fan is now parroting the "Belchick, Reid and Carrol are in their 60s" mantra. 

This is borderline insufferable. 

I know you don't mean that as an insult. That said, you'll find that you're at your professional peak in your 50's and 60's regardless of profession. No magic there, It's just experience and applying that to present situations.

To think either Kubiak or Fangio are stuck in a particular era is a bit disingenuous. They've spent their careers learning how to attack defenses and stifle offenses. I'm excited to see what they can do with this roster. Both sides of the ball should improve significantly.

Anyway, just my two cents. Trust me though, age wise these guys are in their prime as coaches and I consider us very fortunate to have both in Denver.

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5 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Hopefully nobody will be comparing vics to see who has the biggest vic

New Vic has a long way to go to surpass Denver's GOAT Vic 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I know you don't mean that as an insult. That said, you'll find that you're at your professional peak in your 50's and 60's regardless of profession. No magic there, It's just experience and applying that to present situations.

To think either Kubiak or Fangio are stuck in a particular era is a bit disingenuous. They've spent their careers learning how to attack defenses and stifle offenses. I'm excited to see what they can do with this roster. Both sides of the ball should improve significantly.

Anyway, just my two cents. Trust me though, age wise these guys are in their prime as coaches and I consider us very fortunate to have both in Denver.

My comment there about age was not meant to be taken in a vacuum. I was making further mention of what will assuredly be one of the team's PR talking points when trying to sell this hire to the fan base. Klis was the first to make mention of it, no doubt getting it directly from Ellis/Smyth, and did so in an article, on Twitter and on two radio interviews which he gave. 

The two posts I made yesterday are here. 

20 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Klis keeps touting the “Everyone is looking for the next Sean McVay but Elway knows the best coaches are in their 60s - Belichick, Carrol, Reid,” line. 

I’m sure that will a central part of the team’s PR talking points but anyone with a brain should realize that Belichick, Reid and Carrol have been HCs for a looooong time and are in their second (or fourth, in Carrols’s case) stints as head coaches. 

-Reid: 19 years as a HC (13 years in PHI, 6 in KC).

-Belichick: 25 years as a HC (5 years in CLE, 20 in NE)

-Carroll: 22 years as a HC: (1 year in NYJ, 3 in NE, 9 at USC, 9 in SEA)

And in response to @Broncofan's point that Mike Zimmer was the more apt comparison. 

20 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Not a big enough name and his team isn’t in the playoffs.

You have to remember the casual fans, who comprise the target audience of team PR staffs, know who Belichick, Carrol and Reid are. Most don’t know enough about Zimmer to get a boost of confidence from hearing his name dropped while they watch the 2 minute sports report on the 10:00 news. Zimmer just isn’t a household name. Though I do agree with you that he’s a much more apt comparison. 

 

Edited by AnAngryAmerican

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

To think either Kubiak or Fangio are stuck in a particular era is a bit disingenuous. They've spent their careers learning how to attack defenses and stifle offenses. I'm excited to see what they can do with this roster. Both sides of the ball should improve significantly.

Anyway, just my two cents. Trust me though, age wise these guys are in their prime as coaches and I consider us very fortunate to have both in Denver.

Do we have reason to believe that Kubiak's offense is going to jump from 1998 to 2019 overnight? I'm not saying it's impossible but he was so set in his ways that we had Peyton taking snaps from under center. What they did in 2015 was try to meld Peyton's offense with Gary's offense and Peyton's significantly declined physical skills. And it's not like that offense was what won us the Super Bowl. In fact, one could argue that Peyton's (and Ware's) presences the emotional leader was his biggest contribution to the Super Bowl team, not anything he or Gary did from an offensive Xs and Os perspective. 

It has yet to be proven that an elite running game paired with an elite defense is not a Super Bowl winning formula. That worked in the Vince Lombardi era and it may still very well work in the Sean McVay era. Time will tell. However, to achieve those ends we may have the right coaches but we need a serious infusion of talent all along the o-line and at every level of the defense. 

Edited by AnAngryAmerican

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

My comment there about age was not meant to be taken in a vacuum. I was making further mention of what will assuredly be one of the team's PR talking points when trying to sell this hire to the fan base. Klis was the first to make mention of it, no doubt getting it directly from Ellis/Smyth, and did so in an article, on Twitter and on two radio interviews which he gave. 

The two posts I made yesterday are here. 

And in response to @Broncofan's point that Mike Zimmer was the more apt comparison. 

 

FWIW I agree with the Zimmer ideal comp but I think that was @BroncoBruin

Edited by Broncofan

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The dynamic is weird no doubt and I think you guys are always going to have to worry about Elway being too hands on however...Nagy basically let Fangio run the D on his own in Chicago...would make a lot of sense for Fangio to do that again with you guys and let Kubiak run the offence without interference it could work...especially since Fangio would take on all the extra HC duties which will help with Kubiak's health...one thing is for sure...Von Miller is going nowhere now and will be over the moon at this hire.

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7 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

The dynamic is weird no doubt and I think you guys are always going to have to worry about Elway being too hands on however...Nagy basically let Fangio run the D on his own in Chicago...would make a lot of sense for Fangio to do that again with you guys and let Kubiak run the offence without interference it could work...especially since Fangio would take on all the extra HC duties which will help with Kubiak's health...one thing is for sure...Von Miller is going nowhere now and will be over the moon at this hire.

One, Von was never going anywhere. Those "rumors" were started by a Denver radio shock jock who is the Colorado media's version of Skip Bayless. 

On the larger point you're making, I think with the experienced voices that Fangio and Kubiak bring, I don't think Elway is going to be overly heavy-handed. Now, Elway is one of the more powerful GMs in the league and he does have broad influence on aspects not every GM has. But I do think he will let Fangio and Kubiak coach. I wouldn't be too concerned about that. 

But the bottom line, and I've been saying this since even before Vance was fired, is that because of dynamics surrounding the ownership situation and the lack of corporate sponsors to infuse cash (thanks on both accounts, Joe Ellis) this team is in a dire need to win now. Hiring two older coaches who don't need to learn on the job is the best way to do that. The thinking is it's better to have a team that can, if everything goes right, piece together a 10-6ish season and be playing meaningful football in December in front of a packed home stadium. Given how hard it is to find a franchise QB (this team has had two in 69 years of existence) but a good running game, which Kubiak should bring with Lindsay/Freeman, a game-manger QB (which Case can be) and a stout defense a team can win 9 or 10 games a year and achieve those "hey at least we're not the Cardinals" ends. 

If we had a stable owner who had the patience to let his front office and coaching staff undergo a full rebuild, e.g. what they're doing in San Fran, Fangio wouldn't be the hire. Hell, he probably wouldn't have even been interviewed. But we're a franchise in dire financial straights that's a result incompetent executive leadership (Ellis and the trust). The team needs to be competitive ASAP or Ellis is going to be forced out; he cares about retaining his grip on power not winning Super Bowls. 

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22 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Do we have reason to believe that Kubiak's offense is going to jump from 1998 to 2019 overnight? I'm not saying it's impossible but he was so set in his ways that we had Peyton taking snaps from under center. What they did in 2015 was try to meld Peyton's offense with Gary's offense and Peyton's significantly declined physical skills. And it's not like that offense was what won us the Super Bowl. In fact, one could argue that Peyton's (and Ware's) presences the emotional leader was his biggest contribution to the Super Bowl team, not anything he or Gary did from an offensive Xs and Os perspective. 

It has yet to be proven that an elite running game paired with an elite defense is not a Super Bowl winning formula. That worked in the Vince Lombardi era and it may still very well work in the Sean McVay era. Time will tell. However, to achieve those ends we may have the right coaches but we need a serious infusion of talent all along the o-line and at every level of the defense. 

I think it sucks that we aren't getting a progressive offensive team. We all want that...but it just doesn't look like it's happening with Elway. And that continues to worry me with our QB evaluation.....still a HUGE concern. We didn't even meet with Lamar Jackson last year. We have a type and it doesn't look like that is changing any time soon. 

That being said....I think Kubiak can still be highly effective in the modern NFL. He deserves a lot of credit for 2015 and crafting an offense that Brock played well in and survived corpse Manning. Kubiak is such a huge aspect of that Super Bowl win and does not get NEARLY enough credit. He sprinted down the sidelines when they were in the red zone in the SB because Manning was going to try and audible into a pass play that Kubs didn't like. He controlled Manning when Manning couldn't play anymore....it was pretty impressive. Kubiak crafted an offense that didn't lose us the Superbowl and that's all he could do with Manning under center. Pretty wild lmao.

I think this is of note: the Atlanta Falcons may be the top OC job available in the NFL. The talent on that team is great and they wanted Kubiak. I think he is a really great OC. 

And I believe Kubiak was the OC in Baltimore in 2014 when Flacco had his best year. I think GK has results in recent years that prove he is still a strong OC despite the fact that he has been coaching for a long time. It's not going to be particularly exciting, but I think he can still be effective. Bottom line, like you said, they need a serious infusion of talent on both sides. 

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Trust that you guys are getting a damn good coach.  Vic just coached the Bears D to a historic season.  That's not luck.  You just need to hope Elway can find a QB.  Personally I would try for Foles as a stop gap over Keenum but I digress on that.

Anyway congrats.  Could have done a lot worse than this hire in a year where there wasn't any one coaching candidate that really stood out. 

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5 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I think it sucks that we aren't getting a progressive offensive team. We all want that...but it just doesn't look like it's happening with Elway. And that continues to worry me with our QB evaluation.....still a HUGE concern. We didn't even meet with Lamar Jackson last year. We have a type and it doesn't look like that is changing any time soon. 

That being said....I think Kubiak can still be highly effective in the modern NFL. He deserves a lot of credit for 2015 and crafting an offense that Brock played well in and survived corpse Manning. Kubiak is such a huge aspect of that Super Bowl win and does not get NEARLY enough credit. He sprinted down the sidelines when they were in the red zone in the SB because Manning was going to try and audible into a pass play that Kubs didn't like. He controlled Manning when Manning couldn't play anymore....it was pretty impressive. Kubiak crafted an offense that didn't lose us the Superbowl and that's all he could do with Manning under center. Pretty wild lmao.

I think this is of note: the Atlanta Falcons may be the top OC job available in the NFL. The talent on that team is great and they wanted Kubiak. I think he is a really great OC. 

And I believe Kubiak was the OC in Baltimore in 2014 when Flacco had his best year. I think GK has results in recent years that prove he is still a strong OC despite the fact that he has been coaching for a long time. It's not going to be particularly exciting, but I think he can still be effective. Bottom line, like you said, they need a serious infusion of talent on both sides. 

I don't want anyone here to think that I do not have all the respect and admiration in the world for Gary Kubiak. I'm not by any means trying to take a shot at him here.

Everything you say is 100-percent correct.

Atlanta would have been a perfect fit for Kubiak and that's why they wanted him, when Atlanta was good a few years ago they had the best offensive coordinator in the league in Kyle Shanahan, Kubiak would bring an offense that is philosophically identical even if not as brilliantly called. Hot coordinator hire Dan Quinn and Patriot Way leadership Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli are in desperate win-now mode with jobs hanging by a thread as owner Arthur Blank has a spent a fortune on that team with 3-4 year, at most, window. Of course they wanted Kubiak. 

My issue with the Vic and Gary show in Denver is precisely that we're not Atlanta. Now, just like in 2017 when we hired Vance, is the time to take a chance and roll the dice. Try to get with the times or even ahead of them. Swing for the fences. Use whatever cliche you want. That's where my disappointment comes in. 

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27 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Do we have reason to believe that Kubiak's offense is going to jump from 1998 to 2019 overnight? I'm not saying it's impossible but he was so set in his ways that we had Peyton taking snaps from under center. What they did in 2015 was try to meld Peyton's offense with Gary's offense and Peyton's significantly declined physical skills. And it's not like that offense was what won us the Super Bowl. In fact, one could argue that Peyton's (and Ware's) presences the emotional leader was his biggest contribution to the Super Bowl team, not anything he or Gary did from an offensive Xs and Os perspective. 

It has yet to be proven that an elite running game paired with an elite defense is not a Super Bowl winning formula. That worked in the Vince Lombardi era and it may still very well work in the Sean McVay era. Time will tell. However, to achieve those ends we may have the right coaches but we need a serious infusion of talent all along the o-line and at every level of the defense. 

This is a good post AAA. So, a brief response. I think Gary will maximize the talent on our O by adapting to it and what it can do, not force it to do something it can't as was the case (no pun intended) this year. What he did in 2015 I thought was coaching genius. PM wanted to do something he was no longer capable of. Gary gave him an offense he could run.

I agree, PM's major contributions to our SB win were ball security (something he lacked prior to Brock) and as you said, the emotional component. Physically he was the poorest QB to get a SB ring.

One thing we won't see this year is the 60/40 pass run ratio that we had this year. We had the most efficient running game in YPC in the NFL and an inaccurate and limited QB so what did we do? Put the ball in Keenum's hands and ask him to win games with his arm.

I really like your last paragraph. You're right on the money. We do need more talent and at some point soon a QB change. As far as our coaches, they'll be just fine.

 

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Well you have to give Patrick Smyth and his PR team credit. They do one heck of a job; the media  cheerleaders  are out  in full-force and then some

I keep hearing that Vic is a straight shooter, that's great news because games are won and lost in Wednesday afternoon press conferences. Just think how many more games we would have won the last two years had Vance only been more forthright with the media. 

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