broncos67 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I am pleased with the hire from the "who" standpoint. I like Fangio. His defensive units have always been strong performers, and with Von + Chubb, there's a lot of reason to believe this team can continue to perform at a high level defensively. Fangio can be very similar to Mike Zimmer, and I don't think that's a bad thing. The reality is this- Denver has a bad reputation because of the lack of QBs, poor drafting, and coaching carousel. That's on Elway. Frankly, the fact that he could even get a coach like Fangio to come here is really quite surprising in it's own right, so given the circumstances, this is the best I could expect. My concerns, as has always been the case, are mostly focused on this absurd dynamic where Kubiak has been inserted as OC, and somehow a normal org dynamic is supposed to exist. Now, if Kubiak actually becomes more of a Tom Moore offensive consultant role, I'd actually be way more comfortable with that structure. But I just view this as a recipe for disaster. And frankly, Kubiak hasn't shown he can evolve with the NFL. That he was banging down the doors for Case Keenum is a major issue. I guess we'll see. I'm worried about who is going to develop a QB, what QB we are going after, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Quote That he was banging down the doors for Case Keenum is a major issue I cant imagine how persuasive Kubiak is. Last year he convinced Elway to spend 40+ million on a bacukp QB. Now he convinces Elway to promote him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiehardBronxFan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Again, I think Vic is a better hire than Munchak and Pagano. He is a tremendous defensive mind who has been killing it since his SF days w/ Aldon. And even before. But this co-head coach nonsense is going to potentially ruin this front office. There should be one head accountable for the play of this team. Now you have a situation where one can point fingers at the other, trying to deflect blame. And even worse, one of the two has a personal relationship with the GM, meaning there is a high probability that based on simply human nature and the way we prioritize relationships, Elway will always be inclinde to back his friend. Its a gross, inept and childish way to run an organization. We likely are going to ruin what could have been a really nice hire by doing this. It could work, but statistically having two equally powerful people at the top of a company is a disaster waiting to happen. Its a harsh reality that a top-dog is generally needed for a company/business/etc to function properly, efficiently and with accountability. This is such a risk. I've stated before I share these concerns. I think they are valid, and I think there are real risks to this set-up. However, I would also point out a couple of mitigating factors: 1) these are two very strong, experienced, capable and professional individuals. It would be very different with a 30+ year old first time head coach, or some wunderkid OC who didn't know better than to go around Vic. 2) Kubiak has no designs on a HC gig, etc. All of that potential Power Play, jokying, for postion, ego, turf stuff largely disappears because of that. 3) Fangio clearly bought off on this up front, 4) The devil is in the details, and we have no insights into that at the moment. I do think this is very likely a low risk way to steady the ship and get us back to competitive with the current QB and talent level as quickly as possible. And I am genuinely excited to see what Fangio can do with this Defense and a couple of choice new FA and Draft picks. But - certainly doesn't have the most upside long term, and I don't expect any of us (except maybe AKRNA:)) are going to be too excited about the offense over the next 2 years. But given the Keenum Albatross around our necks, that's probably inevitable anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 MUST FIX EVERYTHING NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Kugler is gone, leaving an opening for everyone's favorite. Rick Dennison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 I will reserve final judgment on our OL coach hire until it’s official but losing Kugler hurts. And if we draft the tools only Lock at 1.10 with Elway/Jubiak as the tutors given their record with these types.... jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Side note - TAM got Arians as HC, Todd Bowles as DC and now Kugler as OL coach. Helluva week for the Buccaneers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Side note - TAM got Arians as HC, Todd Bowles as DC and now Kugler as OL coach. Helluva week for the Buccaneers. Yeah......Still have Winston as QB though lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, AKRNA said: Thats kind of a stat in a vacuum don't you think? Roster makeup, FA, draft, injuries............ They all play a huge role. I'm not saying the stats not irrelevant, it may be. Before I make the inference that Fangio was the cause I'd need a lot more information. Yeah, if you’re a good DC, you get your players paid. And if you don’t have a good GM to replace those players when they move on, how much can you do? Our defence has experienced a pretty serious talent drain because of Wade Phillips getting the most out of his guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, champ11 said: Yeah......Still have Winston as QB though lol I suspect he’s going to surprise a ton of ppl next year. His big Achilles is turning the ball over - but only 2 specific ways - he misses the underneath defender or goes for the hero play (often both in same play lol) What’s weird is his ability to look off the S is really good so missing the underneath guy isn’t a lack of vision. And his 3rd down efficiency is the highest in the league (and highest ADOT there past the marker on 3rd down - so it’s not the WR getting the 1sts) and it was top 5 last year so it’s not like he is making bad reads when it counts. Plus after he got the job back this year in 2H, he stopped trying to make hero plays but instead took off early to run (and acknowledged that was Monken in his ear lol). Barring an off-the-field event I suspect he realizes all the potential his late surge last year hinted at (top rated QB when he came back post injury last 5 weeks of 2017 - and eye test showed it). He certainly gets a huge coaching upgrade. No excuses there if he’s no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 45 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said: I've stated before I share these concerns. I think they are valid, and I think there are real risks to this set-up. However, I would also point out a couple of mitigating factors: 1) these are two very strong, experienced, capable and professional individuals. It would be very different with a 30+ year old first time head coach, or some wunderkid OC who didn't know better than to go around Vic. 2) Kubiak has no designs on a HC gig, etc. All of that potential Power Play, jokying, for postion, ego, turf stuff largely disappears because of that. 3) Fangio clearly bought off on this up front, 4) The devil is in the details, and we have no insights into that at the moment. I do think this is very likely a low risk way to steady the ship and get us back to competitive with the current QB and talent level as quickly as possible. And I am genuinely excited to see what Fangio can do with this Defense and a couple of choice new FA and Draft picks. But - certainly doesn't have the most upside long term, and I don't expect any of us (except maybe AKRNA:)) are going to be too excited about the offense over the next 2 years. But given the Keenum Albatross around our necks, that's probably inevitable anyway. I was just thinking the same thing and was going to post it. With young guys it could be a real problem, Kubiak and Fangio, probably not an issue at all. As far as the offense, I'm not really excited about it, it's got a long ways to go. What does make me happy though is we've replaced Musgrave with Kubiak and Garys got a way to bring out the best in an offense regardless of who's his QB.Truth is, we're stuck with Keenum for next year. It's a great way to bring in a young developmental guy to learn the trade. What does excite me is the stability we're bringing to the franchise on both sides of the ball. Fangio and Kubiak should maximize our talent. Now, rather than worry about our HC/OC/DC we can concentrate on bringing in and developing talent, something we're still short on but moving in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Well @AnAngryAmerican called this one a while back. I like Fangio in a vacuum. Certainly as DC. As HC I’ll ceryainly keep an open mind But Kubiak & Kubiak in charge of our QBOTF? And Paige says it’s Lock (obv way too soon to know)? Along with losing Kugler (although again I’d like to know who our new OL coach is)? Man I think I need a drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It's a shame we lost Kugler but so far Strausser is still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, AKRNA said: It's a shame we lost Kugler but so far Strausser is still here. They could have retained Kugler but chose not to. First red flag for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: They could have retained Kugler but chose not to. First red flag for me. Huh, pretty interesting. Maybe they figure Strausser's their guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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