AKRNA Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, germ-x said: Further, he’s never successfully developed a young QB that has been drafted. I thought he did that with Schaub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, AKRNA said: I thought he did that with Schaub. He traded for Schaub when he was 26 and Schaub only had 2 good seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, germ-x said: He traded for Schaub when he was 26 and Schaub only had 2 good seasons. Now thats debatable. He only had two PB seasons but he was a top 10 QB for about 5 years running under Kubiak. I'd say getting that kind of performance from a late 3rd rd pick is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Here's my two sense. Vic Fangio is a guy I would truly want to get a legit shot to be our head coach if he was interviewed and picked as best candidate for the job. This isn't the case though. Fangio, was a guy only picked because he was the only guy who would sucumb to Elway filling his staff. This just looks bad and is a desperate move. I mean Kubiak's Offenses seem way outdated. And add the fact that he's never developed a qb that's scary. Compound that with the fact that Elway hasn't had a good recent draft without kubiak by his side in the front office and everything is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Now thats debatable. He only had two PB seasons but he was a top 10 QB for about 5 years running under Kubiak. I'd say getting that kind of performance from a late 3rd rd pick is pretty good. He wasn’t a top 10 QB for 5 seasons. His best year he threw 29-15 for 4700 yards. That’s a great year no doubt. After that he was average to above. One could argue injuries played a role I guess, but statistically he wasn’t much more than above average. Case Keenum’s best year was as good as Schaub’s 2nd best and you could argue he didn’t have the talent around him that Schaub had. Not saying Kubiak didn’t maximize his talent, but Schaub wasn’t lighting the world on fire either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, germ-x said: He wasn’t a top 10 QB for 5 seasons. His best year he threw 29-15 for 4700 yards. That’s a great year no doubt. After that he was average to above. One could argue injuries played a role I guess, but statistically he wasn’t much more than above average. Case Keenum’s best year was as good as Schaub’s 2nd best and you could argue he didn’t have the talent around him that Schaub had. Not saying Kubiak didn’t maximize his talent, but Schaub wasn’t lighting the world on fire either. Actually, if you use QB rating he was top 10 (from 6-9) from 2008 to 2012. It's a metric I far prefer over yards gained. Anyway, if we could draft one of the mid rd QB prospects I'll bet Kubes could get quite a bit out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Actually, if you use QB rating he was top 10 (from 6-9) from 2008 to 2012. It's a metric I far prefer over yards gained. Anyway, if we could draft one of the mid rd QB prospects I'll bet Kubes could get quite a bit out of him. Even going by QB rating he only had 2 years he was top 10. Again, injury could be argued, but he wasn’t ever a top 10 QB during that time period. Josh Freeman had a top 10 finish during that time frame as well. I am not saying Schaub was a trash QB he was above average, but he wasn’t some developmental marvel that Kubiak can hang his hat on. Kubiak got a few good years out of him. Further, QB rating isn’t a great statistic. Just for a comparison, Schaub’s best year was a 98.6 and our very own Case Keenum’s was a 98.3 last year in Minnesota. Neither are/were top 10 QBs. And If Kubiak can get so much out of a 3rd round pick think what a 1st round or top 10 pick would look like under his tutelage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, germ-x said: Even going by QB rating he only had 2 years he was top 10. Again, injury could be argued, but he wasn’t ever a top 10 QB during that time period. Josh Freeman had a top 10 finish during that time frame as well. I am not saying Schaub was a trash QB he was above average, but he wasn’t some developmental marvel that Kubiak can hang his hat on. Kubiak got a few good years out of him. Further, QB rating isn’t a great statistic. Just for a comparison, Schaub’s best year was a 98.6 and our very own Case Keenum’s was a 98.3 last year in Minnesota. Neither are/were top 10 QBs. And If Kubiak can get so much out of a 3rd round pick think what a 1st round or top 10 pick would look like under his tutelage. I think he'd do great with a top college QB talent Also, just checked PFR again and they list him as between 6th and 9th highest rated QB for 2008-2012. Five concurrent years in the top 10 is a pretty consistent QB. Here's the link. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorClean2k0 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I don't see this as badly as many of you seem to. This might not be the most exciting hire ever but it is absolutely a positive move. Every Chicago or San Francisco person you talk to will rave about Fangio, by all accounts hes a no nonsense coach with a proven track record and it's about time he got a chance. He'll have to prove he can handle the head job but honestly look at all the other options out there and this is one of the best we could have realistically hoped for. As far as Kubiak coming back, I also don't see that as a bad thing. The dynamic is a little tricky, but everyone involved is a grown up and I'm not nearly as worried as some of you seem to be. Kubiak is a solid offensive coach and I believe we will see better production from that side of the ball next year under his coaching. With the right personnel I believe this coaching staff can make us competitive. That being said I won't even begin to get excited about the team until we add some more talent to this roster. Coaching only goes so far and I still don't think this team is anything better than an 8-8, 9-7 team unless we upgrade multiple position groups. QB is still a black hole with Keenum, we have a crop of promising but super young and raw wide receivers that don't exactly inspire confidence going into a new season. A secondary in shambles, and a linebacker core that hasn't been able to cover anything down the field in I don't know how long. Elway really is running out of wiggle room, the way I see it it's all on him, and this offseason is going to be big, let's hope he steps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I see this either being brilliant or total destruction. Nothing in between. Gotta give Elway some credit; this is an unprecedented make or break move, and that took balls. Positive potential: Kubiak knows what he's doing with an offense, which will take a lot of pressure off of Vic as a first time head coach. He can now focus mostly on the defensive side of things, which is something he is pretty legit at. And if nothing else, there is not going to be one single ounce of bull**** going on in that locker room or on that field. That makes a difference. Our guys looked very distracted under coach Joseph, and it cost them some key games, especially this season. AND he's gonna have Von and Chubb. Gonna suck to be Phillip Rivers next year. Negative potential: odd dynamic; I'm not sure if I've ever seen anything like it. If it creates a power struggle, it could nuke the entire thing. Especially with several key players winning a Super Bowl just three years ago under Kubiak. There is definitely the potential for that to go very very wrong. What it really comes down to is whether or not everyone can act like adults and keep the end goal in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 It's hilarious when people think the reason for McVay's success is purely down to the fact he's an excellent play caller and play designer. Do people honestly think he's the first NFL person to ever come up with the concepts he uses? Nobody ever seems to talk about him as a leader. What's to say that his ability as a leader isn't equally as responsible for the Rams success as his playcalling ability? If you have a QB, I get the appeal of having an Offensive guy as Head Coach. Your QB keeps scheme continuity and nobody can come and pinch them like they would if you have an OC with HC aspirations. As every person on this forum knows, we don't have a QB so why the doom and gloom? Because we didn't get a young hotshot HC? There is only one Sean McVay. Just like there is only one Bill Belichick. One Andy Reid. I actually think the main quality in a HC in today's NFL is how they can communicate with modern NFL players. If you include the College game, we're seeing a decline in the Nick Saban, Bill Belichick approach because simply put, players have more power than they used to. Their voices are heard more and unless you've got an established culture like Alabama and New England have, the "my way or the highway" approach is rarely successful. McVay and Lincoln Riley are young, intelligent Offensive minds but so is Adam Gase. However, the two former names are positive, energetic Coaches that try and relate to their players vs Gase's approach as an authoritarian. I am not saying the latter can't work, but I believe from a percentages standpoint it is much better to have a go at hiring the former. I've heard a bit of both re: Fangio's leadership abilities, but the fact is none of us have any clue how he will be as a leader. People scoffed at Doug Pederson. They scoffed at Frank Reich, Anthony Lynn, etc. As a Head Coach, X and O's only matter so much. It's more about leadership, culture, decision making. We don't know how Fangio (or any other candidate) would fare with this, so let's give the guy a chance rather than booing him as soon as the preseason starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I really dont trust the dynamic of Klint and Gary coaching up whichever QB we snag. This idea that Gary is some QB teaching savant is so misguided. He has never really coached up a young QB, outside Schaub but he was already 26 with experience. Gary can get above mediocre play from mediocre vets, but that wont be enough to take us anywhere. I have more faith in Klint shaking things up and suddenly mentoring a young QB than I do with Gary. Old dogs generally dont learn new tricks, and Gary's track record doesnt indicate he is the guy to coach up a young QB. Klint doesnt have a track record, so who knows what he could do. Still dislike the inability to move away from Elway era holdovers. I wanted a totally fresh slate, with a tried-and-true organizational structure. Regardless, this should be a fun ride. If it doesnt work out, I think Elway needs to be given his walking tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I’m happy with the Fangio hire. I however like many others am very skeptical of the Kubiak as OC narrative. And then the funniest yet terrifying part will be when Klint takes over as the OC for Gary. And we surpass some talent for nepotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Quote I’m happy with the Fangio hire. I however like many others am very skeptical of the Kubiak as OC narrative. And then the funniest yet terrifying part will be when Klint takes over as the OC for Gary. And we surpass some talent for nepotism. One positive with Klint is that he has worked for orgs that didnt directly also employ his father. This suggest that he at last has some actual talent as a coach / coordinator. No mistake that his last name helped him in the door, but at least he wasnt a direct hire by his fathers bestie (Elway) through his entire short career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: One positive with Klint is that he has worked for orgs that didnt directly also employ his father. This suggest that he at last has some actual talent as a coach / coordinator. No mistake that his last name helped him in the door, but at least he wasnt a direct hire by his fathers bestie (Elway) through his entire short career. Here is the list - As coach: Texas A&M University (2010–11) Quality Control/Offense Texas A&M University (2012) Graduate Asst./Inside Receivers Minnesota Vikings (2013–14) Assistant WRs/Quality Control University of Kansas (2015) Wide Receivers Denver Broncos (2016–present) Offensive Assistant/Quarterbacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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