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Jaguars shopping Allen Hurns?


pwny

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32 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Yes, and he plays strongside end here. He isn't just here to get after the passer. He will, however, kick inside on obvious passing downs on 3rd down from the sound of it and likely do work next to Malik in those situations.

He wasn't brought here to be a 15 sack guy. If he can be a 7-8+ sack guy and be his normal monster self in all phases as usual I'm cool. 

 

i can tell ya you already have unrealistic expectations of him. his entire career hes Averaged 6.28(its .7 repeating) granted that has 1 year when he was a Backup and had no sacks) so if u wanna scratch that year off then it goes to 7.0625 sacks which isnt exactly good for an edge guy.  this entire scheme isnt good for this roster.  like i said he would be okay if were running a 3-4 but we arent.  you dont pay Abry Jones 4 million a year to play 2 downs(assuming the opposition is in something traditional in a non-spread formation.  coughlin didnt have a good ending here when he was in charge of the roster last time he was here and it surely doesnt have a promising look right now. 

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1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

i gave 3 ways we could have Done to get an Oline. instead of Focusing all the time on adding campbell we should have Been going hard on Zietler who is a stud. 

instead of taking Smoot we could have taken a 3 time First team All Big10 OL, 2nd team All AP(2015), 1st team all AP(2016) and Rimington Trophy Winner(2016) Pat Elflein who i last recalled is Currently being a beast for the vikings.  seems like a real good Olinemen to me and he showed the ability to play center well despite playing that position 1 year.  we also could have Picked 4 year starter at guard like Dan Feeney who was arguebly among the best available players at the time of the smoot pick.  most people had those 2 peg as round 2/3 guys so they werent really reaches and both are looking like starters this year. 

instead of picking DeDe Westbrook we could have  picked Dorian Johnson who most people graded close to Elflein and Feeney. wouldnt be bad value and i think he would be a plug and play at LG where he started full-time for 3 years at the position. 

Hard to hate on Dede when we are talking about trading Hurns and the fact he's killing it. I agree the Smoot pick was weird with Feeney there plus his name is Feeney so what's not to love?

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5 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Hard to hate on Dede when we are talking about trading Hurns and the fact he's killing it. I agree the Smoot pick was weird with Feeney there plus his name is Feeney so what's not to love?

yes but i still dont see the point of a 4th WR at best this year(assuming hurns isnt traded/cut) in round 4 to pass on a starting guard.  i find it funny that hes running Behind Keelan Cole tho so more than likely dede is like wr 5 or 6. 

if we trade hurns it has to be for a Starting QB Option or a Starting Guard option. ill be fine with a pick(depending on the round).  the only benefit of trading Hurns it should let us keep both Wynn and Cole on the 53. i dont think it helps Greenes chances at all. id probably lean towards keeping Benn over greene for special teams. 

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16 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

yes but i still dont see the point of a 4th WR at best this year(assuming hurns isnt traded/cut) in round 4 to pass on a starting guard.  i find it funny that hes running Behind Keelan Cole tho so more than likely dede is like wr 5 or 6. 

if we trade hurns it has to be for a Starting QB Option or a Starting Guard option. ill be fine with a pick(depending on the round).  the only benefit of trading Hurns it should let us keep both Wynn and Cole on the 53. i dont think it helps Greenes chances at all. id probably lean towards keeping Benn over greene for special teams. 

So is Dede our returner now? Thought that was Greenes specialty?

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5 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

So is Dede our returner now? Thought that was Greenes specialty?

i think they have been using like 4 different guys on punt returns. 

i know wynn, Westbrook, Cole all have had time back their returning punts. Cole shows more promise at wr then greene and hes pulled off a big return for us.  i think 1 of those 3 can handle punt returns provided our defense can actually put pressure on a QB. 

Greene isnt safe at all on this roster. he wont make this roster based off his returns because we have those 3 i mentioned who showed some good returns. 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000831249/Keelan-Cole-outruns-defenders-for-a-31-yard-punt-return

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7 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

i think they have been using like 4 different guys on punt returns. 

i know wynn, Westbrook, Cole all have had time back their returning punts. Cole shows more promise at wr then greene and hes pulled off a big return for us.  i think 1 of those 3 can handle punt returns provided our defense can actually put pressure on a QB. 

Greene isnt safe at all on this roster. he wont make this roster based off his returns because we have those 3 i mentioned who showed some good returns. 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000831249/Keelan-Cole-outruns-defenders-for-a-31-yard-punt-return

Idk, Greene did well for us last year though and its been forever since we had someone who could even be above average

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6 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Idk, Greene did well for us last year though and its been forever since we had someone who could even be above average

i think u had a concussion or something. he wasnt very good last year statistically as a PR. he Averaged 6.2 yards per Punt Return which is Skewed because he had a 42 yard 1.  he had 21 returns last year for 131 yards so he got nearly a 1/3 of his yards on a single return. 

the rest of the returns he averaged a VERY Pedestrian 4.45 yards a return. i would hardly qualify that as "Well".

 

the list im looking at it has him 20 out of 21 Punt Returners only ahead of Dwayne Harris who averaged 5.9. the average good returner last year was somewhere around 8.35(its the median). that tells me he was Below Average. 

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1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

i can tell ya you already have unrealistic expectations of him. his entire career hes Averaged 6.28(its .7 repeating) granted that has 1 year when he was a Backup and had no sacks) so if u wanna scratch that year off then it goes to 7.0625 sacks which isnt exactly good for an edge guy.  this entire scheme isnt good for this roster.  like i said he would be okay if were running a 3-4 but we arent.  you dont pay Abry Jones 4 million a year to play 2 downs(assuming the opposition is in something traditional in a non-spread formation.  coughlin didnt have a good ending here when he was in charge of the roster last time he was here and it surely doesnt have a promising look right now. 

Again, strongside end even in our scheme isn't supposed to rack up the sacks. May have went a little crazy with the sack total, but I expect him to have his chances when he moves inside on 3rd downs with Malik. I expect both to wreak havoc. I do expect 5+ sacks from him though, and the pressure he'll create will do wonders for a guy like Yannick, Malik, and everyone else on the DL. 

You act as if 4M per year is some huge amount. You get all your best pass rushers out there on 3rd down. They said right when Campbell was signed that he would kick inside on passing situations on 3rd downs...which he should.

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48 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

yes but i still dont see the point of a 4th WR at best this year(assuming hurns isnt traded/cut) in round 4 to pass on a starting guard.  i find it funny that hes running Behind Keelan Cole tho so more than likely dede is like wr 5 or 6. 

if we trade hurns it has to be for a Starting QB Option or a Starting Guard option. ill be fine with a pick(depending on the round).  the only benefit of trading Hurns it should let us keep both Wynn and Cole on the 53. i dont think it helps Greenes chances at all. id probably lean towards keeping Benn over greene for special teams. 

Dede missed OTA's/most of offseason work and started slow in training camp. Of course he's behind. Last few weeks the media has been all over him in practice and in both games he showed up and created great seperation. You shouldn't need your 4th round pick to be starting, guys taken in rd 4 are supposed to be good depth guys. You don't find your top 2-3 option there. He most certainly has the upside and was an amazing value pick though due to off-field concerns. The guy without the off field stuff was viewed as a top 2 round pick. He has the makings of a big time playmaker if he can stay straight off the field.

Keelan Cole has also deserved to be ahead. From the sounds of it he has been showing up all offseason and has continued it into camp/preaseason. Dede is definitely making the roster, may as well see what you have in Cole (which looks to be something).

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8 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

i think u had a concussion or something. he wasnt very good last year statistically as a PR. he Averaged 6.2 yards per Punt Return which is Skewed because he had a 42 yard 1.  he had 21 returns last year for 131 yards so he got nearly a 1/3 of his yards on a single return. 

the rest of the returns he averaged a VERY Pedestrian 4.45 yards a return. i would hardly qualify that as "Well".

 

the list im looking at it has him 20 out of 21 Punt Returners only ahead of Dwayne Harris who averaged 5.9. the average good returner last year was somewhere around 8.35(its the median). that tells me he was Below Average. 

Was the 42 harder the one vs TB, because if so then let's go with concussion...*set's down beer slowly*

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21 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

im not worried about Malik. he seemed to do well as an interior pass rusher last year. 

however campebll has been a 3-4 End his entire career. he has never been asked to be a edge rusher. 

This is a big part of the problem with this team right now.  Yes, there's talent...but it's all doubled-up in spots, with glaring holes elsewhere.  It's just...talent collected for talents sake - which isn't inherently bad to have, but it doesn't make for a very coherent team, and it doesn't make it easy to get the most out of everyone.

We've got two huge money guys now in what ought to be the same interior 3T sort of role, trying to shoehorn one of them into something he's not.  We've got two promising young WLBs that don't really fit together.  We've got all sorts invested at RB, with nothing to run behind.

 

I mean, i get that you can't just add whatever you want, whenever you want it...but there are holes there that they should have been desperate to fix - but instead, over the past few years we've constantly doubled-down on spending resources (cap and high picks) on the same positions, and spots where we're already potentially strong, or to make up for busted picks.

 

So in that sense, if they can redistribute things a bit and get a player at a position of need by shopping Allen Hurns, i'd be all for it.  I don't have any real faith in Lee to stay healthy and carry the #2WR mantle full time, but i also don't really love the overall composition of this WR corps either.  Moving Hurns for a position of more dire need could help clear the way for that in the future, as well as hopefully strengthening the team overall in the meantime.

 

For my money, Myles Jack is a guy they should probably be dangling as well.  He's gotta still have some sort of actual value.  He's young, with upside, and cheap for the time being...that's attractive to teams.  But assuming they get Telvin locked up, he's probably never going to be in situation to play his best spot as a WLB here.  That's a potential trade chip imo.

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39 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

This is a big part of the problem with this team right now.  Yes, there's talent...but it's all doubled-up in spots, with glaring holes elsewhere.  It's just...talent collected for talents sake - which isn't inherently bad to have, but it doesn't make for a very coherent team, and it doesn't make it easy to get the most out of everyone.

We've got two huge money guys now in what ought to be the same interior 3T sort of role, trying to shoehorn one of them into something he's not.  We've got two promising young WLBs that don't really fit together.  We've got all sorts invested at RB, with nothing to run behind.

 

I mean, i get that you can't just add whatever you want, whenever you want it...but there are holes there that they should have been desperate to fix - but instead, over the past few years we've constantly doubled-down on spending resources (cap and high picks) on the same positions, and spots where we're already potentially strong, or to make up for busted picks.

 

So in that sense, if they can redistribute things a bit and get a player at a position of need by shopping Allen Hurns, i'd be all for it.  I don't have any real faith in Lee to stay healthy and carry the #2WR mantle full time, but i also don't really love the overall composition of this WR corps either.  Moving Hurns for a position of more dire need could help clear the way for that in the future, as well as hopefully strengthening the team overall in the meantime.

 

For my money, Myles Jack is a guy they should probably be dangling as well.  He's gotta still have some sort of actual value.  He's young, with upside, and cheap for the time being...that's attractive to teams.  But assuming they get Telvin locked up, he's probably never going to be in situation to play his best spot as a WLB here.  That's a potential trade chip imo.

I think our defense would work better if we just moved to a 3-4. I know that it might not be ideal but it would allow our best guys in the front 7 to play their more natural spot.

Campbell and Jackson have proved they are very good as 3-4 ends.  Jack should be fine as a 3-4 ilb. Fowler as a olb might work better as you can try to blitz him in different areas.  Only guy who probably doesnt fit is telvin but i dont think the team resigns him cuz hes a wlb and caldwells mentors never spent money on those. 

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12 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

I think our defense would work better if we just moved to a 3-4. I know that it might not be ideal but it would allow our best guys in the front 7 to play their more natural spot.

Campbell and Jackson have proved they are very good as 3-4 ends.  Jack should be fine as a 3-4 ilb. Fowler as a olb might work better as you can try to blitz him in different areas.  Only guy who probably doesnt fit is telvin but i dont think the team resigns him cuz hes a wlb and caldwells mentors never spent money on those. 

Could work, and there was certainly talk about that way back early in the offseason.  But the staff haven't really shown much inclination toward actually doing anything like that.

I think there's potentially still room to fit a player like Telvin in a 3-4, but you still end up with Myles Jack being totally redundant and can't really comfortably get those two on the field at the same time anyway.

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27 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Could work, and there was certainly talk about that way back early in the offseason.  But the staff haven't really shown much inclination toward actually doing anything like that.

I think there's potentially still room to fit a player like Telvin in a 3-4, but you still end up with Myles Jack being totally redundant and can't really comfortably get those two on the field at the same time anyway.

I disagree. U could have both on the field but i think the run defense would suffer.  

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