Chali21 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 45 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Pretty sure Bosa, Allen and Burns wouldn't have the same production if they were playing for the Raiders. Take a look at the dlines around them and at our dline. 49ers: Dee Ford, Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, Solomon Thomas Jaguars: Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus, Yannick Ngakoue, Taven Bryan Panthers: Gerald McCoy, Dontari Poe, Mario Addison Raiders: 3 role players (Hankins, Mauro and Mayowa), 3 2nd year players (Key, Hurst and Hall), 2 rookies. One is not like the others. Those 3 are all in the top 10 in sacks this season. (Car 1st with 27, Jax T4th with 19, SF T8th with 17 and having played only 5 games). The 3 rookies are doing good but everybody is getting to the QB on their teams. This. The Raiders are 3-2 which is equal or better than 2 of those teams with the other playing a much easier schedule. I honestly didn't expect them to have a winning record coming out of London. Now is the pass rush a concern? Sure but it's been a consern forever, only thing that changed that was Mack, he made the pass rush and I hate to break it to y'all but none of these rookies are mack. None of them would have nearly the same impact on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, Chali21 said: Now is the pass rush a concern? Sure but it's been a consern forever, only thing that changed that was Mack, he made the pass rush and I hate to break it to y'all but none of these rookies are mack. None of them would have nearly the same impact on this team. Indeed. For the 4 years we had Mack, we were 30th, 14th, 32nd and 24th in sacks. The time we were 14th, Mack had 15 sacks out of our 38 (and Aldon Smith was still playing). Our pass rush has been bad for a long time now. I think the trio of Hurst, Ferrell and Crosby has potential but it's a work in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Yall reaching for excuses for ferrell being the worst of the 4 so far. I dont know what he is going to be. But he hasnt flashed like the others have. And the talent around dont matter much. It's not like teams are doubling Ferrell cause the rest of the dline is bad. Crosby has flashed talent and motor way more than Ferrell has and crosby had a very bad game week 2. Ferrell pass rush grade is dreadful. I didnt like the pick. Felt we reach for a scheme fit safe floor type of player at 4. I hope he proves me wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Indeed. For the 4 years we had Mack, we were 30th, 14th, 32nd and 24th in sacks. The time we were 14th, Mack had 15 sacks out of our 38 (and Aldon Smith was still playing). Our pass rush has been bad for a long time now. I think the trio of Hurst, Ferrell and Crosby has potential but it's a work in progress. Just need to find an edge rusher, preferably with speed to complement the group. Shame the team won't been in the mix for Chase Young most likely, because he's the kind of player the defense needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Yall reaching for excuses for ferrell being the worst of the 4 so far. I dont know what he is going to be. But he hasnt flashed like the others have. And the talent around dont matter much. It's not like teams are doubling Ferrell cause the rest of the dline is bad. Crosby has flashed talent and motor way more than Ferrell has and crosby had a very bad game week 2. Ferrell pass rush grade is dreadful. I didnt like the pick. Felt we reach for a scheme fit safe floor type of player at 4. I hope he proves me wrong. Ferrell has a low floor. He will be a consistent guy in the defense setting the edge and making plays. I doubt he's ever going to have flashy pass rushing stats. Which I get is what you want at 4 overall. So the ceiling looks low too right now. Hopefully as he matures, his pass gets more refined. He was a great college player so maybe just takes him a little time to acclimate. He's not a finished product, so let's hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Also on Ferrell.. it's easy to look at Allen and Burns success and be envious. But those 2 were better suited to a 3-4 defense. After Bosa, who else was there at edge that fit a 4-3 scheme? But they shouldn't have reached there. This is why I liked White or Bush in that spot as they were desperate at LB. The Raiders were in a bad spot. 2 players fit what they needed/wanted (Bosa and Williams). Both were gone and they went for their biggest need. Draft just didn't fall well for them. Plus side, Crosby looks like a find right now and he was the "undersized and raw" prospect coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Yall reaching for excuses for ferrell being the worst of the 4 so far. I dont know what he is going to be. But he hasnt flashed like the others have. And the talent around dont matter much. It's not like teams are doubling Ferrell cause the rest of the dline is bad. Crosby has flashed talent and motor way more than Ferrell has and crosby had a very bad game week 2. Ferrell pass rush grade is dreadful. I didnt like the pick. Felt we reach for a scheme fit safe floor type of player at 4. I hope he proves me wrong. It's not excuses. People are freaking out because the other 3 are getting sacks. Perspective is needed. It doesn't mean they aren't or won't be better, it means the situations are very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 1 minute ago, oakdb36 said: It's not excuses. People are freaking out because the other 3 are getting sacks. Perspective is needed. It doesn't mean they aren't or won't be better, it means the situations are very different. But how are they getting sacks cause the talent. Are you telling me they seeing less one on ones than Ferrell. Bosa is destroying tightend who try to block him. Ferrell isnt. Allen has more speed and bend on the edge that Ferrell dont. Are they all on better dlines. Sure. Should their rating be that far apart if they had similar talent as players. Naw. I dont buy that. If ferrell was getting double team or chip. Maybe I could. But he really ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, dante9876 said: Yall reaching for excuses for ferrell being the worst of the 4 so far. I dont know what he is going to be. But he hasnt flashed like the others have. And the talent around dont matter much. It's not like teams are doubling Ferrell cause the rest of the dline is bad. Crosby has flashed talent and motor way more than Ferrell has and crosby had a very bad game week 2. Ferrell pass rush grade is dreadful. I didnt like the pick. Felt we reach for a scheme fit safe floor type of player at 4. I hope he proves me wrong. Good take..... Ferrell is getting handled one on one, not like teams are scheming against him because of lack of talent around him. Allen, Bosa are beating guys one on one(due to talent around them are in one in ones). Watch the impact Bosa and Allen make on the field. Special athletes that are good in football. Ferrell isn’t going to be a super athlete over night, so there is a legit concern. Max has flashed more, and made a bigger impact so far. Max also was suppose to be a raw good athlete, Ferrell was too scared to run a 40 or 3 cone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Bosa was gone, and Allen doesnt fit our scheme. Allen wouldnt be getting pass rush opps if we couldnt stop the run, he would be a pass rush specialist with us, is that good value at #4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 on a different note, looks like Houston wont have their RT or CB #2 when we play them. That game will be very tough, but if we can control the ball/ run the ball well, maybe we can keep it close. before the Colts game, i said if we had lost the season was over... now i am thinking we actually have a shot at the playoffs haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 If we were hell bent on drafting a player for the “scheme” should have traded up for Bosa. Smh this franchise lost the draft. Could have easily moved up with the 27th picked involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, Geezy said: Bosa was gone, and Allen doesnt fit our scheme. Allen wouldnt be getting pass rush opps if we couldnt stop the run, he would be a pass rush specialist with us, is that good value at #4? Than u dont reach for scheme fit. There was plenty of good players in position of needs for us. Specifically for ILBs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, dante9876 said: But how are they getting sacks cause the talent. Are you telling me they seeing less one on ones than Ferrell. Bosa is destroying tightend who try to block him. Ferrell isnt. Allen has more speed and bend on the edge that Ferrell dont. Are they all on better dlines. Sure. Should their rating be that far apart if they had similar talent as players. Naw. I dont buy that. If ferrell was getting double team or chip. Maybe I could. But he really ain't. Cause of talent and cause that's their defined role in a D that has other players to lessen their workload. Bosa is an everydown player. Allen and Burns aren't. I'll give you another excuse. Average numbers of sacks allowed for each team's opponents since the start of the season: SF: 16 Jax: 16.1 Car: 19.1 Oak: 10.8 The league average is 14 sacks allowed. Edited October 14, 2019 by oakdb36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 hours ago, dante9876 said: Yall reaching for excuses for ferrell being the worst of the 4 so far. I dont know what he is going to be. But he hasnt flashed like the others have. And the talent around dont matter much. It's not like teams are doubling Ferrell cause the rest of the dline is bad. Crosby has flashed talent and motor way more than Ferrell has and crosby had a very bad game week 2. Ferrell pass rush grade is dreadful. I didnt like the pick. Felt we reach for a scheme fit safe floor type of player at 4. I hope he proves me wrong. Calm down it’s only five games into his rookie season Calm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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