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11 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

What do you guys think of Cooper's play in Dallas?  

I would say he was inconsistent, not worth a 1st and also will not be worth the 17 million he will get paid. 

I think Dallas made the playoffs because of Cooper. They were HORRIBLE before he was on the team. Worse than us. Cooper gave them a threat even if inconsistent. It attracted attention which helps their running game witch is their bread and butter. That keeps the Defense fresh and they were better until yesterday. He was worth their 1st because he game the franchise and the fans hope. He was worth our 1st because he produced the best out of the 1st round WR's in that draft and our young QB needed a weapon. Only Big Cat was on the same level and he was tempting but I thought he had a rumored back issue which is why he wasn't #1 overall. 

We made the right pick at the time and Cooper IS a #1 WR. Carr and him didn't have chemistry for whatever reason but Amari's first seasons stack up well with the greats (he was injuered and still played) so it's really just your hateraid of Amari and not the player himself. NO WR, NONE, EVER,  is worth what they currently are being paid. QB's now making 30 mil really pisses me off. All the rule changes and the overseas games just has thinned out what was once a quality product. AT LEAST they let the players celebrate but NFL football is becoming entertainment more than sport.

The good news is there are some big tall WR's in this draft and hopefully we'll get one or two of them.

 

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17 minutes ago, G said:

I think Dallas made the playoffs because of Cooper. They were HORRIBLE before he was on the team. Worse than us. Cooper gave them a threat even if inconsistent. It attracted attention which helps their running game witch is their bread and butter. That keeps the Defense fresh and they were better until yesterday. He was worth their 1st because he game the franchise and the fans hope. He was worth our 1st because he produced the best out of the 1st round WR's in that draft and our young QB needed a weapon. Only Big Cat was on the same level and he was tempting but I thought he had a rumored back issue which is why he wasn't #1 overall. 

We made the right pick at the time and Cooper IS a #1 WR. Carr and him didn't have chemistry for whatever reason but Amari's first seasons stack up well with the greats (he was injuered and still played) so it's really just your hateraid of Amari and not the player himself. NO WR, NONE, EVER,  is worth what they currently are being paid. QB's now making 30 mil really pisses me off. All the rule changes and the overseas games just has thinned out what was once a quality product. AT LEAST they let the players celebrate but NFL football is becoming entertainment more than sport.

The good news is there are some big tall WR's in this draft and hopefully we'll get one or two of them.

 

I am a realist when it comes to Cooper and not some homer who has my head buried in the sand, I call it like I see it and do not allow the media and their ridiculous opinions to influence my thought processes. He is not an elite number 1 WR, his inconstant play reinforces exactly that.  I will also say that the move that helped Dallas the most this season was the insertion of LVE into the starting lineup, their D turned the corner when he became the starter and Lee was regulated to the bench due to injury.  LVE appears to be a stud and the D played tremendously better once he was starting.  

Prime example is how the announcers called out the Raiders for cutting Anderson.  I was laughing and came on here and there were people debating weather or not we made a mistake by cutting him.  Clearly average football fans who know nothing about the game.  

Anderson is fools gold.  A fat, slow RB  who can only find success on 2 NFL teams and the team that signed him was one of them, KC is the other and possibly NE.  He looks good on a high powered O that creates massive running lanes for him to plow through.  98 percent of teams he is absolute garbage but some people clearly can't comprehend that.  

Edited by Frankie2Gunz
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2 hours ago, justwinbaby81 said:

That said--we won that trade.

Why are fans so hell bent to decide on who "wins" trades. This trade was a win for both teams. Cooper was not right here, chemistry with Carr was off and he played soft. He needed a change and the Raiders got a 1st round pick and avoided losing him in FA where they certainly wouldn't have paid him. 

As with the Mack trade, it all comes down to who they draft. The end game is winning Superbowls. If the Raiders build a more well rounded roster that gets them back to competing in the division and playoffs, these trades will have been successful.

These trade are spotlighted and harped on on social media simply because the Raiders made them and Jon Gruden's the coach. The want this to fail so badly and take every shot they can get. If Gruden has the last laugh, it will be OH SO SWEET and that's all we can hope for here.

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59 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I completely agree.  I remember when we had DHB and he was on the field for every snap, forced fed the ball and ended up with 1k and 5 td's.  Everyone was saying how he had turned a corner and I was dumbfounded.  If you forced feed any WR the ball he will put up stats if he is on the field enough.  Even a worthless piece of trash like DHB has some big games just based on sheer volume.  I'm not saying that Cooper is DHB bc Cooper is clearly better but getting a first rounder and ridding ourselves of his soon to be bloated contract was a win.  I'm reading rumors that Pit is seeking a first for Brown and anyone who thinks Cooper is better than Brown needs to have their heads examined.  

Let's look at last night's game and what Cooper did.  Did he take over the game like a legit elite WR should?  No.  Did he make any tough contested catches?  No, actually Gallup made some tough contested catches and had a better game than Cooper.  

When Cooper gets the ball in his hands he is a threat but every catch he made last night was uncontested which was not really impressive.  He had the ball ripped from his hands late in the game and was very lucky to have it go out of bounds.  

Time will tell on Cooper but I still see an inconsistent WR who was over drafted and about to get paid a 17 a year which he is clearly is not worth that much considering you can find similar production for much cheaper. 

 

Man.... you are so salty. It's okay to admit that you were at least partially wrong. Maybe those uncontested catches you keep bringing up are a product of Cooper's superior route running abilities. He's a top flight route runner and you seem to want to ignore that.

Do I think he's worth 17 million a year, absolutely not. But you ragging on him for years just makes you loose credibility. You're just trying to stick to your ridiculous off base evaluation of him after 4 years. It's okay to admit you're wrong and educate yourself man.

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I’m glad we traded coop and I was one of his biggest fans. If we were a wr away from being a playoff team then I’d dump money in coop. But we’re not. Happy for coop but it is what it is and he is what he is. I think it was a even trade fwiw.

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1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I am a realist when it comes to Cooper and not some homer who has my head buried in the sand, I call it like I see it and do not allow the media and their ridiculous opinions to influence my thought processes. He is not an elite number 1 WR, his inconstant play reinforces exactly that.

Prime example is how the announcers called out the Raiders for cutting Anderson.  I was laughing and came on here and there were people debating weather or not we made a mistake by cutting him.  Clearly average football fans who know nothing about the game.  

Anderson is fools gold.  A fat, slow RB  who can only find success on 2 NFL teams and the team that signed him was one of them, KC is the other and possibly NE.  He looks good on a high powered O that creates massive running lanes for him to plow through.  98 percent of teams he is absolute garbage but some people clearly can't comprehend that.  

Who said 'elite' I didn't, you did. He is a #1 WR. Randy Moss is one of the few WR's who looked elite out the gate.Julio was #2 to White. Brown was signed because Sanders and Wallace were ahead of him until Brown actually was the man. Calvin Johnson elite by 2nd season but as you said in another post about WR's being force fed the ball. CJ left and the team/QB/Offense got better. A team doesn't need an elite WR, especially as they approach 20 mil per. A 'team' needs multiple targets that complement eachother and open up opportunities for others to get targets. Look at Dallas in it's JJ SB's. A solid D but a QB who gets the balls to his weapons. WR Irvin the go to WR who crosses the middle. Harper the speedster and jump ball target. Novack to slow TE who gets into the open zones and knows what his QB wants. Emitt Smith a RB who has patience and waits for his blockers to engage instead of using spped to the hole before it opens. Catches swing passes and is a great saftey valve. Moose the hammer for the running game who can dive through the line and find the open spaces for a catch or two to keep a defender eyeing him. I see Cooper like a quiet/less EGO driven Irvin. He's #1the go to guy who defenses pay extra attention to. Now there's also slots so if all are getting the ball and all cost 20 mil then the team lets players go. We were right to trade Cooper as we were right to draft him. Cooper is incosistent and if he fixes that he will go from #1 to elite. Besides an injury ends a season when you don't have pieces to hold it together while a player heals. Green Bay's SB with Favre was a bunch of guys who had injuries and overcame not having an elite WR. They had an elite QB who got his weapons the ball even if they just got on the team.

Media is entertainment. 'If it bleeds it leads' and the Raiders are gushing, hemmoraging if you will. So naturally the sharks go into a feeding frenzy and just bite whats there. Were an easy target and will continue to be until we win a playoff game. I was shocked when I saw somebody pick us as on the rise but said not til Vegas because of home uncertainty being difficult for a grown man to want to put his family through unless there are serious benefits. (pay or long term contract) Then they just move their family to Vegas now and just rent whereever they play during the season.

Hopefully we get a servicable veteran WR and draft  2 in the draft to be mentored by the vet. I'd even draft 3 if somebody slipped to the 5th because of 'issues' Go young/hungry and cheap as only one of them will get an extension. Also need a TE in the 3rd or 4th and a RB and a pass rusher and... LOL

 

EDIT: Trade was good for both teams and we got good value and weren't going to pay him. Mack is a different story but I understand the narrative above as it's all about the big picture. We didn't get two 1st cause our 2nd is forgotten too often value wise.

CJ Anderson I didn't even know was on the team so it must have been so brief that he didn't show enough while here. No loss there

 

Edited by G
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13 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

What do you guys think of Cooper's play in Dallas?  

I would say he was inconsistent, not worth a 1st and also will not be worth the 17 million he will get paid. 

Let me guess you posted this so you can continue your Cooper hate!

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48 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Man.... you are so salty. It's okay to admit that you were at least partially wrong. Maybe those uncontested catches you keep bringing up are a product of Cooper's superior route running abilities. He's a top flight route runner and you seem to want to ignore that.

Do I think he's worth 17 million a year, absolutely not. But you ragging on him for years just makes you loose credibility. You're just trying to stick to your ridiculous off base evaluation of him after 4 years. It's okay to admit you're wrong and educate yourself man.

I've never said the guy was a bad route runner, I think he is a good route runner but it takes more than being a good route runner to be an elite WR in the NFL.  People want him to be elite, a top NFL WR but he is not and never has been.  He does some thing well but he has many hole sin his game and it infuriates me how people slap this elite level on him when he clearly is not.  

For those who say he is a number 1, was James Jones a number 1?  He was on our team.  Is Sammy Watkins a number 1?  He was on the Bills.  

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1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Do you think he is an elite 1, worth trading a 1st for and paying 17 a year?  Do you think his inconsistent play is worth that?

Almost every WR is inconsistent because they are so dependent on the players around them.  I do not believe any WR is worth $17 million.  Puting money aside I do believe Cooper is a top ten WR with a below average QB that is willing to throw to him.  Is he a Hopkins or Julio type that can do it almost on their own?  No but there are only a couple players like that in the league.  I think next year Cooper will be top 5.  So if he is a top 5 WR do you believe he is worth $17 million?

As far as Dallas is concerned Cooper turned a  stagnant and struggling 3-4 team into a 7-2 team.  There is no question he was the missing piece but the question is how many WRs in the league could have played that role to get that offense going?  I would say maybe 10-15 different WRs and if that is the case then a 1st round pick is worth it.  If you told me I could trade our Dallas pick and become an above 500 team I would do it in a heart beat.  I do not care if that player was a kicker.  

From a Raider perspective we had two games while Cooper was here that we had a chance to win (Denver and Cleveland).  Cooper had 31 targets, 22 catches, and 280 yards in six games here.  In the 2 games we had a chance to win Cooper had 21 targets, 18 catches, and 244 yards.  That means in our 4 beat downs he had 10 targets, 4 catches, and 36 yards.  I do not care how tough of a match-up he has but Cooper should see 2-3 targets in the first quarter every game.  If we go down big in the beginning that is an even bigger reason to look for Cooper.

Cooper first two reasons for why he loves the Cowboys was facility and city.  He did not like Oakland and I am sure Alabama had a better training facility than the Raiders.  I think if he could have made it to Vegas he might have enjoyed himself more but our team has been handicapped by money for a long time now.

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28 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Almost every WR is inconsistent because they are so dependent on the players around them.  I do not believe any WR is worth $17 million.  Puting money aside I do believe Cooper is a top ten WR with a below average QB that is willing to throw to him.  Is he a Hopkins or Julio type that can do it almost on their own?  No but there are only a couple players like that in the league.  I think next year Cooper will be top 5.  So if he is a top 5 WR do you believe he is worth $17 million?

As far as Dallas is concerned Cooper turned a  stagnant and struggling 3-4 team into a 7-2 team.  There is no question he was the missing piece but the question is how many WRs in the league could have played that role to get that offense going?  I would say maybe 10-15 different WRs and if that is the case then a 1st round pick is worth it.  If you told me I could trade our Dallas pick and become an above 500 team I would do it in a heart beat.  I do not care if that player was a kicker.  

From a Raider perspective we had two games while Cooper was here that we had a chance to win (Denver and Cleveland).  Cooper had 31 targets, 22 catches, and 280 yards in six games here.  In the 2 games we had a chance to win Cooper had 21 targets, 18 catches, and 244 yards.  That means in our 4 beat downs he had 10 targets, 4 catches, and 36 yards.  I do not care how tough of a match-up he has but Cooper should see 2-3 targets in the first quarter every game.  If we go down big in the beginning that is an even bigger reason to look for Cooper.

Cooper first two reasons for why he loves the Cowboys was facility and city.  He did not like Oakland and I am sure Alabama had a better training facility than the Raiders.  I think if he could have made it to Vegas he might have enjoyed himself more but our team has been handicapped by money for a long time now.

Do I believe Cooper had something to do with Dallas playing better yes as he was an upgrade over what they had a WR.  I also think LVE being thrust into a starting role when Lee went down had more to do with Dallas winning than Cooper.  With LVE in there the D went from average to above average as LVE was all over the field and a ball hawking LB.  I loved that guy coming out and he proved that we was a great selection at the bottom of the first round.  I doubt Lee comes back next season with Dallas.  

As for Cooper being a top 5 WR that is a flat out joke.  His skillset and the holes in his game put him no where close to the top 5.  I can name 20 WR's right now off the top of my head better than Cooper and the 17 million he will get paid is more reinforcement that we made the right move by getting ra 1st for him.  

Here's 20. A. Brown, NUK, Julio, Hill, JuJu, M. Thomas, Diggs, Thelin, Baldwin, Landry, Allen, Hilton, Evans, ODB, Adams, Corey Davis, Jeffery, Green, Kupp, Gordon.  I can keep going if you please but you get my point.  

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1 minute ago, NightTrainLane said:

Lord do I hate the Pat's but I would have hated an all AFC WEST champ game more. Now it's a Sophie's choice between seeing Bill and Brady chasing another ring and KC going to the big dance. Kinda hating football atm.

Seriously.  Pats are stomping SD.  I want to see the Saints win it all.  I love Brees and how he plays the game.  

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