Chali21 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Depends on the asking price, but I'd take Ramsey if it's a 3rd or later. Just get good players in the building and raise the level of competition. It only take a couple alpha guys to elevate players around them. Stop trying to run a team with mediocre players and wondering why you suck. Ramsey on the back end with Maxx upfront would 2 good lynchpins for the defense to build around. He’d go a long way in shoring up that defense. I’d be fine with a 3rd as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 4:48 PM, NYRaider said: Even Ramsey in a down year is still very good though, those stats don't account for all of the plays that he took a guy out of the play. I wouldn't personally trade for him though, he's way too expensive and we have way too many holes. Right price, I would. We have a need at DB and unless we're going DB round 1 or 2, you're probably not getting Ramsey level play....and even then you may wind up with a guy who is only like 75% of what Ramsey can be. A 3rd or less, I'd bite in a heartbeat. Proven talent > a draft gamble, especially if it's a day 2 or later type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/27/2023 at 12:18 PM, ronjon1990 said: Right price, I would. We have a need at DB and unless we're going DB round 1 or 2, you're probably not getting Ramsey level play....and even then you may wind up with a guy who is only like 75% of what Ramsey can be. A 3rd or less, I'd bite in a heartbeat. Proven talent > a draft gamble, especially if it's a day 2 or later type of guy. It's not just about him being talented though, he has a 26.7M cap hit in 2024 and a 22.7M cap hit in 2025. Plus he wants a new deal if he's traded, so I'm assuming more GTD money. The roster is already extremely top heavy as it is, trading for another player that's the highest paid at his position isn't going to help us build depth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 52 minutes ago, NYRaider said: It's not just about him being talented though, he has a 26.7M cap hit in 2024 and a 22.7M cap hit in 2025. Plus he wants a new deal if he's traded, so I'm assuming more GTD money. The roster is already extremely top heavy as it is, trading for another player that's the highest paid at his position isn't going to help us build depth. Offer them Waller. That will clear up some space. The chances of Waller rebounding and being irreplaceable by a FA or later round pick are lower that the likely improvement Ramsey would represent for our DB unit. Waller is becoming like Michael Thomas- a sunk cost. He's perpetually injured and it's now been like 2+ years since he was a dominant force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Offer them Waller. That will clear up some space. The chances of Waller rebounding and being irreplaceable by a FA or later round pick are lower that the likely improvement Ramsey would represent for our DB unit. Waller is becoming like Michael Thomas- a sunk cost. He's perpetually injured and it's now been like 2+ years since he was a dominant force. They'd be trading Ramsey to recoup draft capital, not sure why they'd give up arguably the best CB in the league for Waller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: They'd be trading Ramsey to recoup draft capital, not sure why they'd give up arguably the best CB in the league for Waller. Waller and a 3rs then. Or ship Waller elsewhere, get some picks, and use that. Then again, we've shown an inability to trade or come out ahead in trades most of the time, so that's probably too fancy of an idea for the Raiders FO lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Waller and a 3rs then. Or ship Waller elsewhere, get some picks, and use that. Then again, we've shown an inability to trade or come out ahead in trades most of the time, so that's probably too fancy of an idea for the Raiders FO lol I just don't think Ramsey makes a ton of sense for us considering the state of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 value FAs signings and draft well, thats how good teams are built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 11 hours ago, NYRaider said: I just don't think Ramsey makes a ton of sense for us considering the state of the roster. Adding talented players ALWAYS makes sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Adding talented players ALWAYS makes sense. It makes sense to trade away a 1st to pay a CB like $23M APY over the next three seasons? Assuming you tag Jacobs and it's a post June 1st trade that'd leave us with around $13M in cap space to work with pre-cuts/restructures. 8 guys would account for over half of our salary commitments and that's without a QB... Edited March 1, 2023 by NYRaider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Adding talented players ALWAYS makes sense. In isolation, yes, but I think we have to factor in age, position, cap hit, cost in terms of picks/players. If we could add him for no more than a third that would be worth it, for a first plus his cap hit, I’d be very wary. Edited March 1, 2023 by Darbsk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Darbsk said: In isolation, yes but I think we have to factor in age, position, cap hit, cost of adding. If we could add him for no more than a third that would be worth it, for a first plus his cap hit, I’d be very wary. The Rams are potentially going to trade him for cap cutting purposes, if adding talent always makes sense, why are they trying to trade him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, NYRaider said: It makes sense to trade away a 1st to pay a CB like $23M APY over the next three seasons? Assuming you tag Jacobs and it's a post June 1st trade that'd leave us with around $13M in cap space to work with pre-cuts/restructures. 8 guys would account for over half of our salary commitments and that's without a QB... I wouldn't trade a 1, no. But my point was more about just acquiring talent in general. 7 minutes ago, Darbsk said: In isolation, yes, but I think we have to factor in age, position, cap hit, cost in terms of picks/players. If we could add him for no more than a third that would be worth it, for a first plus his cap hit, I’d be very wary. Certainly. The price has to be right. 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The Rams are potentially going to trade him for cap cutting purposes, if adding talent always makes sense, why are they trying to trade him? Because they leveraged their drafts to win a Super Bowl and are feeling the effect of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I wouldn't trade a 1, no. But my point was more about just acquiring talent in general. Because they leveraged their drafts to win a Super Bowl and are feeling the effect of it. Obviously the plan should always be to acquire talent but you also have to allocate your resources correctly. We're already extremely top heavy and adding another big contract like Ramsey would just make it worse. He's quickly approaching 30 and we don't look to be anywhere near contention. They lack talent / depth across the OL/defense just like we do and even though Ramsey is a great player their defense was still meh last year. DZ just said that he doesn't think that we're 1-2 high priced acquisitions away from being competitive. Would be weird to see him immediately back track and trade for Ramsey. Edited March 1, 2023 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Obviously the plan should always be to acquire talent but you also have to allocate your resources correctly. We're already extremely top heavy and adding another big contract like Ramsey would just make it worse. He's quickly approaching 30 and we don't look to be anywhere near contention. They lack talent / depth across the OL/defense just like we do and even though Ramsey is a great player their defense was still meh last year. DZ just said that he doesn't think that we're 1-2 high priced acquisitions away from being competitive. Would be weird to see him immediately back track and trade for Ramsey. My overarching point is, get talent. That's really it. Don't shy away from talent simply because "the state of the roster." The only way to improve the state of the roster is to acquire actual talent. Of course the compensation and price weigh in. Ramsey, the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze. But he's the type talent you go after if the price is right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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