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TheKillerNacho

Sooners' Kyler Murray officially declares for NFL draft

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Kardinals will take Murray and trade Rosen for a Kings Ransom.

Adam Sheftner already stirring the pot.

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1 hour ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I know that one source I read said the A's could recoup all of his signing bonus if he were to sign a football contract. So he's going to have to choose. Thankfully, NFL teams will have a good idea of his intentions this February, where he'll have to choose between the A's training camp and the NFL scouting combine.

He'll make more money on an NFL rookie contract than his signing bonus right? Similar to Lamar Jackson. 

Good move for him, if it doesn't work out... he can always go back to baseball. 

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1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I think this is an awful decision for him. I've met the guy and he's probably 5'10" and like 180lbs. Mayfields size was a question and he's big compared to Murray.

 

I think he'll struggle big time in the NFL bc of his size and trying to improvise and getting hit.

Baseball will always be plan B if the NFL doesn't work out and he'll get paid. I think he'll be just fine.

I don't know what to make of NFL QBs now. Murray's movement skills are top notch, could he thrive in todays NFL where the QB is protected? Maybe.

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27 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

Adam Sheftner already stirring the pot.

That's certainly what it sounds like to me.  I wonder if it's Murray's agent, Kliff Kingsbury or the Cardinals that suggested it to him?

 

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48 minutes ago, drd23 said:

That's certainly what it sounds like to me.  I wonder if it's Murray's agent, Kliff Kingsbury or the Cardinals that suggested it to him?

 

Always go with the agent lol.

Kingsbury was brought in to develop Rosen.    Taking an October comment and projecting it to taking Murray over Bosa is just a silly season entertainment piece that's about 3 weeks early because of the timing of the Kingsbury hire and Murray declaration.   Because the October quote is there, Schefter can say it's more than just conjecture, but it's a puff piece IMO.

Unless he's a lot bigger (not height, frame) than I saw, I'd be shocked if he went Rd1.   And I'd feel bad for that fanbase.    

 

Edited by Broncofan

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Dude isn't an NFL QB...I'll laugh if any team takes him in the 1st. 

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2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I think this is an awful decision for him. I've met the guy and he's probably 5'10" and like 180lbs. Mayfields size was a question and he's big compared to Murray.

 

I think he'll struggle big time in the NFL bc of his size and trying to improvise and getting hit.

Russell Wilson is in the 5'10"/5'11" range. Drew Brees is barely 6'0". If the kid can play, he can play. I'm not going to make the mistake I made with Russell. If I like the kid's film, I'm not going to let height dissuade me.

1 hour ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Moreover, his earning potential is undoubtedly better in the MLB with less injury risk. But if he loves football over baseball, who are we to judge?

That's not accurate.

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1 hour ago, Trentwannabe said:

Kardinals will take Murray and trade Rosen for a Kings Ransom.

Adam Sheftner already stirring the pot.

They're not getting a King's ransom for Rosen. He was a mid-first round pick.

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11 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Russell Wilson is in the 5'10"/5'11" range. Drew Brees is barely 6'0". If the kid can play, he can play. I'm not going to make the mistake I made with Russell. If I like the kid's film, I'm not going to let height dissuade me.

 

To be fair, though, it's not the height by itself.   If we look at short QB's, they succeed with 3 skills:

1.  Big hands (so they don't fumble, and can also likely do #2).

2.  Ability to change arm throwing angles with the same level of accuracy / placement.

3.  Really intelligent pocket-awareness / read-progression skills to avoid a pass rush getting too close that the height is a problem (in emergencies, #2 helps a lot).


Plus, the 3 guys we mentioned are all 20+ lbs heavier - and I wonder if it's not 25-30 TBH.  The league is very QB-friendly, so I get the argument that he would be protected - but the risk of being worn out, or nicked/bruised, is far greater the smaller frame he has.   And if he chooses to get heavier, I can't believe it won't be at the expense of his speed, which is special.   I get that ppl will say why not apply the argument to all the QB's who have a smaller frame but are taller - but they don't try to win with their legs nearly as much as Kyler did.

Either way, he's got to choose football completely as a QB - that's step 1.  Then let's see how he checks out hand-size / frame wise at the Combine.  I'm a guy who values skills over tools/size - as long as some thresholds are met.   Like the WR who has a ridiculously bad 3-cone / shuttle,  no matter how precise the pattern runner or tall/great hand-catcher that he is, it raises flags on ability to separate, which is key in the NFL.   The same still applies for the QB position if there's a size disadvantage - there are just ways around it, but he has to have them.  And the frame issue is one that's harder to feel good about, if it's added on.  I would like to see what limits we are dealing with, but if he's as small as he looks on tape, then I really need to see the 3 skills above before I'd be comfortable with a Rd1 evaluation (and late Rd1 at that TBH).  
 

Edited by Broncofan

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2 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To be fair, though, it's not the height by itself.   If we look at short QB's, they succeed with 3 skills:

1.  Big hands (so they don't fumble, and can also likely do #2).

2.  Ability to change arm throwing angles with the same level of accuracy / placement.

3.  Really intelligent pocket-awareness / read-progression skills to avoid a pass rush getting too close that the height is a problem (in emergencies, #2 helps a lot).


Plus, the 3 guys we mentioned are all 20+ lbs heavier.  The league is very QB-friendly, so I get the argument that he would be protected - but the risk of being worn out, or nicked/bruised, is far greater the smaller frame he has.   And if he chooses to get heavier, I can't believe it won't be at the expense of his speed, which is special.

Either way, he's got to choose football completely as a QB - that's step 1.  Then let's see how he checks out hand-size / frame wise at the Combine.  I'm a guy who values skills over tools/size - as long as some thresholds are met.   Like the WR who has a ridiculously bad 3-cone / shuttle,  no matter how precise the pattern runner he is.  I would like to see what limits we are dealing with, but if he's as small as he looks on tape, then I really need to see the 3 skills above before I'd be comfortable with a Rd1 evaluation.  
 

Yeah, experience has led me away from the small frame argument with regard to injuries. I remember when it was Goff vs. Wentz, people were worried Goff wouldn't stay healthy. Yet, the skinny-framed Goff has been much more durable than the much larger and thickly built Wentz. I think durability is a lot more complicated than size/frame. I'm not even sure how much those things play into it. Obviously, there's a limit, but 5'10" 190 pounds isn't that limit imo. It would be interesting if somebody studied that to determine the correlation between size and durability.

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6 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yeah, experience has led me away from the small frame argument with regard to injuries. I remember when it was Goff vs. Wentz, people were worried Goff wouldn't stay healthy. Yet, the skinny-framed Goff has been much more durable than the much larger and thickly built Wentz. I think durability is a lot more complicated than size/frame. I'm not even sure how much those things play into it. Obviously, there's a limit, but 5'10" 190 pounds isn't that limit imo. It would be interesting if somebody studied that to determine the correlation between size and durability.

Yeah, I've heard the same about Rosen too.  Again, though, frame isn't a guarantee that a guy gets hurt - it's just a risk.   But a key difference is that Murray uses his legs to succeed.  Goff doesn't (and neither does Rosen).   Either way, your take that it's not a straight line equation is very fair.   

Pocket awareness, quick-read progression, decisiveness, the ability to move around the pocket and avoid big hits, they all matter (and to that point, Goff and surprisingly, Rosen, showed more pocket awareness and functional mobility than initially expected, which is probably why Rosen is still standing after 2018 - OMG that was a historically bad OL, maybe worst since cap era started level bad).   They will matter a lot more with a guy who uses his legs to succeed, though.  And that's Murray.

Edited by Broncofan

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Imagine being such an unbelievably gifted athlete you could choose between two professional domains? Some athletes work their whole lives for an opportunity at one sport and fail. Pretty insane. 

If you're Murray you've got to first and foremost really ask yourself what you desire more, and follow that passion. No NFL franchise is going to take you on without full, documented commitment. Although, you have to think the real money is in baseball. Not to mention you completely avoid any CTE or long-term injury degradation. It will interesting what he decides and why. 

As for Schefter's take, it's not inconceivable they draft Murray. But there's an extremely slim chance that happens at #1 overall. And another thing, did Arizona's FO not hire Kingsbury under the condition Rosen was the QB he was committed to working with?

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I think he is a late 1st round pick. Height is a concern but there is no doubt Murray can make tons of NFL throws. No comparison to Lamar.

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11 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

I think he is a late 1st round pick. Height is a concern but there is no doubt Murray can make tons of NFL throws. No comparison to Lamar.

His height isn't nearly the concern his weight is to me. 180 pounds is incredibly light (the only players who play at this weight are kickers and some secondary/receivers but even then that's small) - and his frame looks like it would get snapped in half at the NFL level.

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