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Bengals to hire Rams QB coach Zac Taylor as head coach


49erurtaza

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2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

You're right--Zac Taylor's record as a head coach is much better. 

Personally, I prefer no record to a bad record. I'm not saying that Taylor will end up the better HC. Sometimes, guys are mediocre in college and good/great in the NFL. But Kingsbury's experience doesn't exactly scream "successful NFL HC."

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Just now, jrry32 said:

Personally, I prefer no record to a bad record. I'm not saying that Taylor will end up the better HC. Sometimes, guys are mediocre in college and good/great in the NFL. But Kingsbury's experience doesn't exactly scream "successful NFL HC."

I agree that kingsbury isn't a lock to even sort of succeed, but position coaches that are promoted to head coaches in the NFL almost always fail. McVay's an amazing coach, but hardly an established commodity at this point (his "tree" is still kind of small). 

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3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I agree that kingsbury isn't a lock to even sort of succeed, but position coaches that are promoted to head coaches in the NFL almost always fail. McVay's an amazing coach, but hardly an established commodity at this point (his "tree" is still kind of small). 

Can you provide some examples to back that up? I mentioned that I'd be interested to see if anyone has a list. I remember the successful ones, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a lot of failures. Mike Tomlin and Sean Payton were obviously huge successes. Raheem Morris was obviously a huge failure. Anthony Lynn and John Harbaugh are both debatable successes too.

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2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Can you provide some examples to back that up? I mentioned that I'd be interested to see if anyone has a list. I remember the successful ones, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a lot of failures. Mike Tomlin and Sean Payton were obviously huge successes. Raheem Morris was obviously a huge failure. Anthony Lynn and John Harbaugh are both debatable successes too.

Don't know about Tomlin off-hand, but Payton was an offensive coordinator, and John Hatbaugh was a special teams coordinator, wasn't he? Am I off on this--not remembering things correctly? 

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4 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Don't know about Tomlin off-hand, but Payton was an offensive coordinator, and John Hatbaugh was a special teams coordinator, wasn't he? Am I off on this--not remembering things correctly? 

Payton had failed as OC with the Giants. He was the QB Coach/Passing Game Coordinator for the Cowboys when hired by the Saints. Harbaugh was Special Teams Coordinator, but that's why it's debatable. It's not really treated like the other two coordinator jobs.

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2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Payton had failed as OC with the Giants. He was the QB Coach/Passing Game Coordinator for the Cowboys when hired by the Saints. Harbaugh was Special Teams Coordinator, but that's why it's debatable. It's not really treated like the other two coordinator jobs.

By going to the Super Bowl, right? Quite the failure, there. 

The only position coach I recall having success is Ditka...and even he's overrated. I'll look up Tomlin in a sec. 

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3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

By going to the Super Bowl, right? Quite the failure, there. 

The only position coach I recall having success is Ditka...and even he's overrated. I'll look up Tomlin in a sec. 

Tomlin was DC in Minnesota for a year. I just remembered. Payton was stripped of play-calling duties and about to be fired before leaving to take the QB Coach job in Dallas. That's a failure. Hell, Zac Taylor was an OC before joining the Rams, if that's the criteria.

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37 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Were you? 

No, didn't think so.

Kingsbury has been a head coach, and also had a somewhat nifty offense of his own design.

Wasn't Kingsbury a player in the NFL?  Doesn't that give him some insight into the workings of the league? 

As a player, not a coach - these are two different things. Which is why we see former players turned coach not always work out so well.

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Just now, jrry32 said:

Tomlin was DC in Minnesota for a year. I just remembered. Payton got fired from the Giants. That's a failure. Hell, Zac Taylor was an OC before joining the Rams, if that's the criteria.

Every coach gets fired. That's the reality of the league. If Taylor was an OC, he has a better chance to succeed as a HC, based on historical parameters. 

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Just now, Heinz D. said:

Every coach gets fired. That's the reality of the league. If Taylor was an OC, he has a better chance to succeed as a HC, based on historical parameters. 

Taylor was an OC for the Dolphins after Lazor was fired and an OC in college for Cincy.

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1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

As a player, not a coach - these are two different things. Which is why we see former players turned coach not always work out so well.

You were talking NFL experience before, so you can't really defend that earlier position with this. The fact is...Kingsbury is more qualified. Odds are, neither hire works out, but I hope they do. Both are good coaches, when you come down to it. 

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3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

You were talking NFL experience before, so you can't really defend that earlier position with this. The fact is...Kingsbury is more qualified. Odds are, neither hire works out, but I hope they do. Both are good coaches, when you come down to it. 

I was referring to coaching experience at the NFL level which again is different altogether.

But I do agree with the latter part of your post.

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2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

You were talking NFL experience before, so you can't really defend that earlier position with this. The fact is...Kingsbury is more qualified. Odds are, neither hire works out, but I hope they do. Both are good coaches, when you come down to it. 

I disagree that he's more "qualified" because we don't have the ability to assess that. Kingsbury is more experienced, but Taylor has more practical experience.

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Just now, jrry32 said:

I disagree that he's more "qualified" because we don't have the ability to assess that. Kingsbury is more experienced, but Taylor has more practical experience.

He has significantly more head coaching experience than Taylor. But he may be far more of a butthead. So we'll see how it shakes out. 

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Just now, Heinz D. said:

He has significantly more head coaching experience than Taylor. But he may be far more of a butthead. So we'll see how it shakes out. 

He had more experience. That is true. However, it is not at the NFL level. But that doesn't tell you who is more qualified, just like a resume can't tell you who is the most qualified to do a job. You interview people, check references, and do background checks for good reason.

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