jjab360 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 43 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: So...only casual fans think Foles is a good quarterback? And what was the "fall back down again" with Foles, anyway? Are you referring to his time under Jeff Fisher? He wasn't particularly good under Andy Reid his rookie year, fell back down after one great year under Chip Kelly, was terrible under Fisher, and fell back down again earlier this year with Pederson. This isn't a Fisher thing, he hasn't been consistently good for any HC he's played under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) My list is based on last 2 years, projection of next year and situational measuring. (How good would they do in other qbs identical situation) With last year having about a 15% value on the list, this year having a 55% value, projecting next year has a 15% value and 15% on how i feel situationally the qbs would do in other qbs situations. 1. Brees 2. Rivers 3. Wilson 4. Luck 5. Mahomes 6. Ryan 7. Brady 8. Goff 9. Watson 10. Rodgers 11. Wentz 12. Ben 13. Baker 14. Dak 15. Stafford Edited January 12, 2019 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x0x Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 3:37 AM, jjab360 said: I don't even know where to start with this logic. Should I mention team success vs individual success, the backup QB phenomena that guys like Foles and Fitzpatrick live off of where casual fans actually think they're good until they undoubtedly fall back down again, or the many flaws to Foles' game such as inconsistent scattershot accuracy, below average arm strength, and the accompanying overcompensating aggressiveness. He has his good stretches, but he is what he is, let's just leave it at that. Thing is when you cross-compare and account for his individual numbers. First, you have to start with playoff numbers. He's started 6 games which is not the biggest sample size but it's reasonable. In those 6 starts he's had 2 monsters games by most considerations (last year NFC Title and Super Bowl), 2 very solid games and two lacking games this year against the #1 defense and middle of the road defense but where his team didn't stop the run and gave him less time to work with and his second pick was completely on the receiver not him. Overall a pretty good playoff QB. Then we look at the regular season numbers past 2 seasons. 5 starts in 2018, 2 great games, 2 solid games and 1 bad game. 2 starts to finish in 2017, 1 pretty good game and 1 poor game. While this all might not seem great the problem with ranking 15 guys ahead of him or even 9 is that percentage wise and with playoffs, he's by default a more reliable option. Carson Wentz for example did have a great 2017 until injury but his 2018 he had 9 good to great games and still 0 playoff games. I can't judge him off that in comparison to Foles. Then the OP is asking about right now. And right now Rodgers while electric with a 25-2 ratio is not being consistent with high numbers his team needs. 4 games of over 300 yards, 2 games over 2 TDs and six games of 65% completion or above. Moreover his last 3 playoff runs have seen him with 3 good-great games. There are problem on the Packers but when I watch some games I think a lot of Rodgers' volume comes on short throws and from behind when defenses let up. I wouldn't trust him in clutch situations. That can change quickly though, the OP was asking right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFan13 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Only Matt Ryan can be in the top 5 in pretty much every category but 1 with a god awful O-line and defense and still barely make it in peoples top 10 lists That poor man had to start fighting hobo's on the street and beating up babies or something for people to dislike him so much all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjab360 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, x0x said: Thing is when you cross-compare and account for his individual numbers. First, you have to start with playoff numbers. He's started 6 games which is not the biggest sample size but it's reasonable. In those 6 starts he's had 2 monsters games by most considerations (last year NFC Title and Super Bowl), 2 very solid games and two lacking games this year against the #1 defense and middle of the road defense but where his team didn't stop the run and gave him less time to work with and his second pick was completely on the receiver not him. Overall a pretty good playoff QB. Then we look at the regular season numbers past 2 seasons. 5 starts in 2018, 2 great games, 2 solid games and 1 bad game. 2 starts to finish in 2017, 1 pretty good game and 1 poor game. While this all might not seem great the problem with ranking 15 guys ahead of him or even 9 is that percentage wise and with playoffs, he's by default a more reliable option. Carson Wentz for example did have a great 2017 until injury but his 2018 he had 9 good to great games and still 0 playoff games. I can't judge him off that in comparison to Foles. Then the OP is asking about right now. And right now Rodgers while electric with a 25-2 ratio is not being consistent with high numbers his team needs. 4 games of over 300 yards, 2 games over 2 TDs and six games of 65% completion or above. Moreover his last 3 playoff runs have seen him with 3 good-great games. There are problem on the Packers but when I watch some games I think a lot of Rodgers' volume comes on short throws and from behind when defenses let up. I wouldn't trust him in clutch situations. That can change quickly though, the OP was asking right now. Foles is a below average QB and you're trolling me with Foles > Rodgers. I'm not biting. Edited January 15, 2019 by jjab360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 1:42 AM, jjab360 said: Foles is a below average QB and you're trolling me with Foles > Rodgers. I'm not biting. Even I won't say Foles is better than Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 9:07 PM, bzane said: @mdonnelly21 My one quibble is that I would think that Josh Dobbs, from the University of Mars, ought to be in there somewhere. The University of Mars LMAO. We're all still waiting for Dobbs ascension to elite QB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles18 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 8:45 PM, jjab360 said: He wasn't particularly good under Andy Reid his rookie year, fell back down after one great year under Chip Kelly, was terrible under Fisher, and fell back down again earlier this year with Pederson. This isn't a Fisher thing, he hasn't been consistently good for any HC he's played under. Foles is great for a few games and is amazingly calm under pressure, but he's had as many so so games as he has had great ones. Last year, he benefitted from a top run game, top 5 defense and great receivers so the team just needed competent QB play to be competitive in the playoffs. He didn't play as well in this years playoffs - you can pretty much account for 1 INT a game with nick, whereas Carson doesn't throw picks as often. A healthy Carson Wentz would've beat the Saints in the divisional round and nearly every eagles fan on this forum agrees with me.. Too many times in that game Foles through deep pass or check down, it became predictable and a major reason why the offense stalled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x0x Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, eagles18 said: Foles is great for a few games and is amazingly calm under pressure, but he's had as many so so games as he has had great ones. Last year, he benefitted from a top run game, top 5 defense and great receivers so the team just needed competent QB play to be competitive in the playoffs. He didn't play as well in this years playoffs - you can pretty much account for 1 INT a game with nick, whereas Carson doesn't throw picks as often. A healthy Carson Wentz would've beat the Saints in the divisional round and nearly every eagles fan on this forum agrees with me.. Too many times in that game Foles through deep pass or check down, it became predictable and a major reason why the offense stalled. There is zero chances Wentz does better against the Saints than Nick did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles18 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 hours ago, x0x said: There is zero chances Wentz does better against the Saints than Nick did. 21 TD | 7 INT | 3,074 yards | 69.6 Completion % | 102.2 passer rating Those stats coming off a ACL/LCL injury and dealing with back issues are why you're wrong. Its more impressive when you factor in no running game and a decimated defense. Most of our losses were decided by a TD or less - 3 of which the defense gave up huge leads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargers Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, x0x said: There is zero chances Wentz does better against the Saints than Nick did. Really? Wentz hasn't played a playoff game before but zero chance isn't giving him a chance in hell. In anycase no Foles is not a Elite QB at least not without many productive seasons similar to his 2013 season and last year's playoff run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 11:34 AM, eagles18 said: Foles is great for a few games and is amazingly calm under pressure, but he's had as many so so games as he has had great ones. Last year, he benefitted from a top run game, top 5 defense and great receivers so the team just needed competent QB play to be competitive in the playoffs. He didn't play as well in this years playoffs - you can pretty much account for 1 INT a game with nick, whereas Carson doesn't throw picks as often. A healthy Carson Wentz would've beat the Saints in the divisional round and nearly every eagles fan on this forum agrees with me.. Too many times in that game Foles through deep pass or check down, it became predictable and a major reason why the offense stalled. With Wentz, you wouldn’t have even made the playoffs, let alone play the Saints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles18 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, rocky_rams said: With Wentz, you wouldn’t have even made the playoffs, let alone play the Saints Says who?? After the saints game, Wentz played 3 great games. The offense started to click after that game. Week 12 vs NYG: 20/28 236 yards 1 TD WIN 25-22 Week 13 vs WAS: 27/39 306 yards 2 TD 1 INT WIN 28-13 Week 14 @ DAL: 22/32 228 yards 3 TD LOSS (OT) 23-29. This game the defense allowed Dak to throw for a career high 455 yards. Regardless of their records, these are divisional opponents who always play harder vs a hated rival. Let's not forget that Wentz is the same guy who dropped 4 td on the rams a season ago, one of which was after he tore his ACL. He's the same guy who had 33 TD to 7 picks in 2017 and paved the way for a first round bye (1st seed). Nick Foles struggled to beat a lowly Raiders team on Christmas day, went 4/9 for 39 yards and 1 pick against a defeated cowboys team, and was saved from playoff exit by none other than Jalen mills on a last second goal line stand guarding Julio Jones. Everyone wants to say how we beat a dominant Vikings team with Nick Foles at the helm, what about the fact that the Saints scored nearly 20 unanswered points on them only to be defeated by a miracle. The real savior of this team is the coaching staff on offense and defense Doug has shown a great ability to tailor his offense to any QB ( even Sudfeld threw a td vs the Redskins) and Jim Schwartz has shown the ability to get the most out of defensive players. Carson Wentz is the same guy who put up 21 TD 7 Picks 3200 yards and a 102 passer rating in 2018 playing 11 games. So lets stop this attack on a guy who came off a devastating ACL/LCL injury Edited January 18, 2019 by eagles18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66PinG Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 11 January 2019 at 5:49 AM, mdonnelly21 said: I want to see your list, based on right this very moment. Who gives you the best odds to win a SB, if the roster is starting from scratch in a redraft. Right now? Rodgers and not even close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66PinG Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 After him, give me Foles.he just wins when the team actually participates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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