Onizuka Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 8/24/2017 at 0:28 AM, Mind Character said: As Kessler and Bulger played 8 games or less and Big Ben started 13 games, it really speaks to how Dak, Big Ben, RG3, and Russell had unbelievable rookie years. Makes me think their elite escapability and their ability to extend plays was critical for their rookie years. So many names lost to time...Marc Bulger, Josh Freeman, Charlie Frye, Joey Harrington...Oh to only think of the nonsense excited and hopeful fans all said about those QBs (I thought Charlie Frye was the one for real though!) Not to belittle any of those rookie QBs, but.....Dak, Big Ben, and Russell didn't exactly have pressure on them as they all had either a great o-line, great defense, or a great run game to keep them in games. RG3 I can't speak for since I didn't really see how great WA was that year outside of RG3 having a great rookie season. I'd rather Kizer show overall improvement week to week instead of having nice flashy stats. Like this week, he held the ball too long too many times, missed some open receivers, and needs to work on his sliding to protect himself. If we see improvement in any of these areas next week vs the Ravens, then, I'll be happy and will continue to watch for improvements instead of wondering how many TDs/yards he threw for (though those would still be nice lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 He's got a long way to go, but a lot of the things he failed with yesterday (too many hits, holding on to the ball too long) are easily fixable with experience. DeShone needs to get that cleaned up though. He'll be injured by October if he keeps getting hit like he did yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Pleasantly surprised that what Kizer showed in the preseason, he brought to the game 1. He can test windows like an elite passer. He made sound reads, and his pocket mobility while keeping his eyes downfield is good. But man can he take a sack. And that's a little alarming. If was just 2 or 3 times, you could chalk it up to being a rook...but it was literally over and over and over. Holding the ball too long isn't necessarily a fixable trait. The list of cast down QBs are filled with guys that never fixed it. The other thing is the punishment he absorbed. He simply won't last long taking those kind of hits. ...although not every defender is a vicious human missile like Shazier. Overall it's encouraging but Hue has to stick with the running game. Or the wheels will eventually fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/11/2017 at 1:42 AM, Onizuka said: Not to belittle any of those rookie QBs, but.....Dak, Big Ben, and Russell didn't exactly have pressure on them as they all had either a great o-line, great defense, or a great run game to keep them in games. RG3 I can't speak for since I didn't really see how great WA was that year outside of RG3 having a great rookie season. I'd rather Kizer show overall improvement week to week instead of having nice flashy stats. Like this week, he held the ball too long too many times, missed some open receivers, and needs to work on his sliding to protect himself. If we see improvement in any of these areas next week vs the Ravens, then, I'll be happy and will continue to watch for improvements instead of wondering how many TDs/yards he threw for (though those would still be nice lol) to be fair kizer could have all three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cortes02 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 It was nice to see Kizer go out there against the Steelers and not look overwhelmed by the moment of playing his first NFL game and playing against the Steelers defense. If he can look as unfazed versus Baltimore's defense I will be impressed. Peace!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgpoun8017 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I was impressed that he came out after that blocked put and still looked cool calm and collected, that is a huge thing to me as we have seen so many who in that spot would have pooped the bes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 5:37 PM, Mind Character said: At some point this season, Deshone Kizer is going to throw interceptions, fumble the ball, make foolish decisions, and look like a rookie QB. I thought it would be good to contextualize his upcoming performance based on past rookie QB history... Below are the relevant passing statistics for rookie QBs in the league from 1994 to 2016, with at least 5 games started in their rookie season, sorted by games started (so the more games started "16" the higher on the list) There are two separate tables generated from www.pro-football-reference.com ; the first table includes true rookie QBs. The second table also includes rookie QBs and QBs in their first official starting year. ***You can click on the images of the charts to enlarge here on the forum. Then you have the option to click again to zoom in. Clicking on the image a third time (after it's been enlarged and zoomed-in upon will open the image in a new tab so you can navigate around the chart on its own page*** Given that historical context, what do you think are reasonable expectations for his numbers?? Beyond just numbers, what do you want to see specifically in his play (i.e., minimized redzone mistakes, clutch 4th quarter play, the ability to battle back after interceptions, etc..)? Starting to think Kizer will be more Luck like rookie year with 23TDs to 18INTs, but hoping he doesn't go full Stafford with 13TDs to 20INTs....the Lions didn't think twice that Stafford wasn't their guy...now, of course they spent the number 1 overall on the guy, but if Kizer does post a similar TD:INT ratio most if not all will abandon ship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 23 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Starting to think Kizer will be more Luck like rookie year with 23TDs to 18INTs, but hoping he doesn't go full Stafford with 13TDs to 20INTs....the Lions didn't think twice that Stafford wasn't their guy...now, of course they spent the number 1 overall on the guy, but if Kizer does post a similar TD:INT ratio most if not all will abandon ship... Eh depends on progression and circumstances. If he has pressure and is trying to fit the ball into a tight window those picks can be forgiven. If he has a clean pocket and is just inaccurate then that is more of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Eh depends on progression and circumstances. If he has pressure and is trying to fit the ball into a tight window those picks can be forgiven. If he has a clean pocket and is just inaccurate then that is more of a problem. Facts... I really think that's an important distinction and will be a very diagnostic criteria regarding the end of the year assessment of his progress/development.. That's what makes the last game so disappointing...it's the Higgins intended pass INT in the end zone that was the most disappointing throw... The throw lacked the most basic general accuracy and he had so much margin for error... Duke tip pick was inaccurate but not egregious...last pick was just a really bad decision... He needs to show accuracy...although Luck and Stafford both had complete head scratchers like that...I guess the hope is just more often than not (by a big margin) he needs to be more precise and accurate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 Look at the W-L record and stats of the QBs in the charts with no WR1, WR2s and no primary force RB... Kizer is keeping pace.. His peak plays are still QB1 franchise talent...hard to evaluate him with the garbage around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 If Kizer had a Calvin Johnson a la Stafford...or Amari Cooper a la Carr...AJ Green like Dalton...Dez/Witten like Dak, Greg Olsen/Steve smith like Cam...or Hopkins like Deshaun Watson...things would be qualitatively different. On third downs, redzone, drive momentum starting plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 5:37 PM, Mind Character said: At some point this season, Deshone Kizer is going to throw interceptions, fumble the ball, make foolish decisions, and look like a rookie QB. I thought it would be good to contextualize his upcoming performance based on past rookie QB history... Below are the relevant passing statistics for rookie QBs in the league from 1994 to 2016, with at least 5 games started in their rookie season, sorted by games started (so the more games started "16" the higher on the list) There are two separate tables generated from www.pro-football-reference.com ; the first table includes true rookie QBs. The second table also includes rookie QBs and QBs in their first official starting year. ***You can click on the images of the charts to enlarge here on the forum. Then you have the option to click again to zoom in. Clicking on the image a third time (after it's been enlarged and zoomed-in upon will open the image in a new tab so you can navigate around the chart on its own page*** Given that historical context, what do you think are reasonable expectations for his numbers?? Beyond just numbers, what do you want to see specifically in his play (i.e., minimized redzone mistakes, clutch 4th quarter play, the ability to battle back after interceptions, etc..)? Looking like Kizer going to go full Stafford his first year... The fire Hue, he's the worst OC, fire the entire FO, we blew it on Wentz & Watson sirens are too much for me... They've sapped what little Browns fan energy I had left out of me. Context is key to evaluate Kizer. It's not all over for him yet... Please for goodness sakes Jimmy stay the course...don't listen to the hoard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 Like Stafford's first year, Kizer has had some flashes but also a lot of really bad and critical turnovers. Interesting enough, Stafford had a 6 turnover game (5 Ints; 1 Fumble) and a 5 turnover game (4 INT; 1 Fumble game) w/ redzone turnovers. First five games Stafford 3TDs; 7 INTs....Kizer 3TDs; 9 INTs..,can't recall if Stafford's INTs were all on him or not but I certainly know at least 2 INTs of Kizer were on Britt. Stafford was definitely the superior talent in all aspects relative to Kizer coming out IMO, but their similar flashes, pocket poise, and WOW throwing ability will hopefully lead to a similar trajectory; that is, Kizer learns and turns it around by balling out as the talent around him gets better and his game ability/understanding progresses. Time will tell...of course...and it may not actually get better...but history/context is important. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matthew Stafford's first 5 games (Yes, Calvin Johnson was on that team) Deshone Kizer's first 5 games Matthew Stafford's full season first year starting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Do Ryan Leaf next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Do Ryan Leaf next. What's the point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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