LeotheLion Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: I agree with pretty much everything you said, except I wouldn't peg him as "super" inconsistent. And--there aren't "supposed" haters, there are genuine haters. As in--people who claim he sucks no matter what he does. If you are ignoring the hate, well...don't know what to say to you, really. Collinsworth called that 20 yd. pass to Cohen (during the Bears-Eagles playoff game), "the best pass I've seen him throw"...when anyone who knew football, and actually watched Trubisky without hater goggles on would claim otherwise. The Bortles thing is a codification of all that...we'll take a guy that everyone is coming around to agree is a bust...then we'll link him to this other Trubisky guy we hate--even though their games, and deficiencies, don't really match up--then we'll put that out there as evidence we were right all along. Because us being right trumps anything we see on the field... That may be fair. I only saw 5 games of his this year and he was very hot and cold in every game besides the Detroit game that I watched. So my perception of him is those 5 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, LeotheLion said: That may be fair. I only saw 5 games of his this year and he was very hot and cold in every game besides the Detroit game that I watched. So my perception of him is those 5 games. Yeah, I'd say "disappointingly" inconsistent, at least early on. Better in the latter half of the season. But to call him inconsistent isn't inaccurate, nor--I would venture--all that unexpected an assessment for a guy who played little college ball, then was put in a different pro system in his second year. Trubisky clearly improved, though. As I recall, Bortles didn't, which is part of my shenanigans claim on the comparison between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, LeotheLion said: Trubisky is super inconsistent. The supposed haters knock him because you never know what version of him you are going to get. Trubisky fans fixate too much on his great plays instead of his body of work which is underwhelming. The Bears had one of the best playcallers this year and one of the best defenses of the last 5 years. They didn't get a playoff win in large part to how ineffective Trubisky was for 3 quarters of the game. He has a bright future, but I don't think there are haters. There are people hyping him up a ton which causes a stark contrast in opinions. He is an average to below average QB right now (15-18 range). He has all the tools to have a bright future if he can be more consistent. How is he super inconsistent? After week 3 when everyone was still trying to figure out what they were doing in the offense, he had probably 1 "bad" game after missing 2 weeks with a shoulder injury. He had I would say 4 "great" games, and and 3 "good" games. 5 I would classify as "average". One thing is certain, he wasnt the reason they lost any of the 4 games that they did. He was a 2nd year QB, in his first year in a brand new system that is notoriously intensive to learn. Go take a look at what QBs do in their first ever playoff game. Then look at what Tru did in his. The problem is for some reason EVERY throw that this kid makes is scrutinized to the point that unless he is totally perfect people will call him inconsistent. It's like no other QB ever misses throws, or makes bad decisions. I can find missed throws and bad decisions made by every qb in every game. For some reason it is just magnified for this kid, but to his credit, he doesnt let any of it get to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said: How is he super inconsistent? After week 3 when everyone was still trying to figure out what they were doing in the offense, he had probably 1 "bad" game after missing 2 weeks with a shoulder injury. He had I would say 4 "great" games, and and 3 "good" games. 5 I would classify as "average". One thing is certain, he wasnt the reason they lost any of the 4 games that they did. He was a 2nd year QB, in his first year in a brand new system that is notoriously intensive to learn. Go take a look at what QBs do in their first ever playoff game. Then look at what Tru did in his. The problem is for some reason EVERY throw that this kid makes is scrutinized to the point that unless he is totally perfect people will call him inconsistent. It's like no other QB ever misses throws, or makes bad decisions. I can find missed throws and bad decisions made by every qb in every game. For some reason it is just magnified for this kid, but to his credit, he doesnt let any of it get to him. I don't watch every Chicago game. Basically I watch every Rams game, Lions game and the primetime games. So I saw Mitch this year play GB, Sea, Det, MN, Rams, and Eagles. He obviously had a great game against Detroit. The Philly game was okay. I was impressed with his 4th quarter but the first 3 quarters were not good and he was bailed about by a few dropped picks. The other 4 games were bad. The Rams game in particular was awful. Goff just happened to play worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Stafford > Cousins > Trubisky. Sure, you can call Stafford and Cousins stat whores (one of my all-time favourite Simmonsisms (well, it was sent by a reader) is referring to Stafford as "Pad Statford"). Still, I rate Stafford above Cousins because I have seen him carry some dog**** Lions offenses on his back. I think if you're a Lions fan, you aren't upset with having used the 1/1 on him, he's delivered as much as you'd expect. The key is if he ever gets a good team around him, which he hasn't had in the past (obviously he's had pieces - some very good to all-time great WRs, but the run game and OL have been spotty) and then fails. Cousins gets marked down because he DID have that good team around him this year and it went *pfffft*. Still, it's a THREE year contract, so I don't think you can quite stamp "EPIC FAIL" on the Cousins-in-Minny era yet - although it doesn't look good, because there's going to be a talent exodus from Minny this offseason. Trubisky is too young. To re-iterate what's above, he's inconsistent, which is to be expected of a 2nd year QB. Some of his issues with accuracy don't look like the type that can be ironed out. The thing is, he needs to get good FAST because the Bears talent inflow is going to slow to a trickle due to the trades for him and Mack - so the time is NOW in Chicago, and I don't think he's up to it. That said, it's correct that he still has a lot of upside. He COULD be better than Stafford and Cousins, when all is said and done, but right now he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I voted for the first option - Stafford/Cousins/Trubisky Having said that, I am continually amazed at how little respect Trubisky gets on this board. Comparing him to Blake Bortles is ludicrous as far as I'm concerned. He is a FAR better passer than Bortles will ever be. While it's fair to say that Mitch still has some work to do, he definitely has some tools that could take him a long way. He is mobile and does a nice job of escaping pressure (he's better than Stafford or Cousins in this area), and he has a very nice arm. His accuracy is very good and his arm strength will enable him to make all the throws. He is only a second-year QB, and as the game slows down for him he should continue to improve. Not everybody comes out of the gates like Mahomes. It's too early to say it will happen for sure, but he has the potential to become the best QB in the division. Rodgers is on the decline and Stafford and Cousins are both probably about as good as they are going to be. Heck, four to five years from now, he might be the only one left in the division. Rodgers could retire due to health issues, and I could see the Lions and the Vikings both making the decision to move on if things don't change for their teams. The comparison between Stafford and Cousins is an interesting one. They are very, very close, IMO. Stafford hasn't really been given a real chance with a complete supporting cast. Cousins can play well at times, but as everyone says, he is going to need to start coming up bigger in important games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: Stafford > Cousins > Trubisky. Sure, you can call Stafford and Cousins stat whores (one of my all-time favourite Simmonsisms (well, it was sent by a reader) is referring to Stafford as "Pad Statford"). Still, I rate Stafford above Cousins because I have seen him carry some dog**** Lions offenses on his back. I think if you're a Lions fan, you aren't upset with having used the 1/1 on him, he's delivered as much as you'd expect. The key is if he ever gets a good team around him, which he hasn't had in the past (obviously he's had pieces - some very good to all-time great WRs, but the run game and OL have been spotty) and then fails. Cousins gets marked down because he DID have that good team around him this year and it went *pfffft*. Still, it's a THREE year contract, so I don't think you can quite stamp "EPIC FAIL" on the Cousins-in-Minny era yet - although it doesn't look good, because there's going to be a talent exodus from Minny this offseason. Trubisky is too young. To re-iterate what's above, he's inconsistent, which is to be expected of a 2nd year QB. Some of his issues with accuracy don't look like the type that can be ironed out. The thing is, he needs to get good FAST because the Bears talent inflow is going to slow to a trickle due to the trades for him and Mack - so the time is NOW in Chicago, and I don't think he's up to it. That said, it's correct that he still has a lot of upside. He COULD be better than Stafford and Cousins, when all is said and done, but right now he isn't. 8 Who do you see leaving Minnesota? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Uncle Buck said: Who do you see leaving Minnesota? Barr, Sheldon Richardson, Latavius Murray, OL depth Rashod Hill, Nick Easton, and Brett Jones are all FA. Those are two frontline starters and 4 key reserves, and the Vikes only have $8 million in cap room. So I overstated the "exodus" but they're up against the cap and can't bring in quality FAs to replace Barr or Richardson, and will have to get cheap replacements for the other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: Barr, Sheldon Richardson, Latavius Murray, OL depth Rashod Hill, Nick Easton, and Brett Jones are all FA. Those are two frontline starters and 4 key reserves, and the Vikes only have $8 million in cap room. So I overstated the "exodus" but they're up against the cap and can't bring in quality FAs to replace Barr or Richardson, and will have to get cheap replacements for the other guys. Barr - He is a decent player but not worth keeping, even if we could afford him. I agree with you on him. Richardson - He could be a cap casualty. I would like to keep him around, but at least this is a good draft class for DT's. Murray - He is slightly above average, but I would love to see the Vikings find a replacement for him in the later rounds of the draft, which I think they can do without a lot of problems. O-Line - Undoubtedly our biggest issue. We could lose them and feel it in terms of depth, but from a talent perspective, we wouldn't be missing much. We ABSOLUTELY have some work to do on what was an outrageously bad O-line this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: Barr - He is a decent player but not worth keeping, even if we could afford him. I agree with you on him. If you go by the theory that one should listen to what rival fans are saying, the posters on the GB board think Barr is a high-level talent who's being misused in Minny. I certainly can't dispute the other points you posted - RB is highly fungible (heck, look at CJ Anderson!), and while losing Richardson hurts, this draft is deep in DL talent AND DL is one of the positions where a player can come in and have instant impact. Still, being up against the cap means that a team is down to one avenue - the draft - to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr Bad Example said: If you go by the theory that one should listen to what rival fans are saying, the posters on the GB board think Barr is a high-level talent who's being misused in Minny. I certainly can't dispute the other points you posted - RB is highly fungible (heck, look at CJ Anderson!), and while losing Richardson hurts, this draft is deep in DL talent AND DL is one of the positions where a player can come in and have instant impact. Still, being up against the cap means that a team is down to one avenue - the draft - to improve. This draft is going to be huge for us. Get a good one and we will be in great shape. A bad draft means we could be in trouble for a while. One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is for the Vikings to trade Xavier Rhodes. He is an elite corner who could bring in a decent return, and with the addition of Mike Hughes, I think a defensive coach of Mike Zimmer's caliber can work with all the other corners we have and take up a lot of what we miss without Rhodes. I'm not sure how much he is being paid, but that could add a decent amount to our cap as well. It might make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, LeotheLion said: I don't watch every Chicago game. Basically I watch every Rams game, Lions game and the primetime games. So I saw Mitch this year play GB, Sea, Det, MN, Rams, and Eagles. He obviously had a great game against Detroit. The Philly game was okay. I was impressed with his 4th quarter but the first 3 quarters were not good and he was bailed about by a few dropped picks. The other 4 games were bad. The Rams game in particular was awful. Goff just happened to play worse. GB and SEA were weeks 1 and 2, see my caveat above. Detroit was one of the "great" games I mentioned, and the Rams game was the "bad". Eagles game he had a couple bad throws in the first half, he also some really good ones. This is where I talk about the overanalyzing of the individual throws themselves. At the end of the Philly game Mitch was 26/43 for 303 yds with 1 TD and no INTs and an 89.6 rating. Which, oh btw, was the most yards and the highest rating of any of the "rookie" playoff QBs this year. But I mean that doesnt really fly with the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 With absolutely no provisions given, I'll obviously go with Trubisky because of his age and his contract. I think Stafford is the best QB. Despite 2018 I think that Cousins has the best combination of talent + situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: GB and SEA were weeks 1 and 2, see my caveat above. Detroit was one of the "great" games I mentioned, and the Rams game was the "bad". Eagles game he had a couple bad throws in the first half, he also some really good ones. This is where I talk about the overanalyzing of the individual throws themselves. At the end of the Philly game Mitch was 26/43 for 303 yds with 1 TD and no INTs and an 89.6 rating. Which, oh btw, was the most yards and the highest rating of any of the "rookie" playoff QBs this year. But I mean that doesnt really fly with the narrative. Yeah okay. This is why it is perceived Trubisky has haters. We can't count weeks 1 and 2 because it was too early. It's not about overanalyzing throws. Even if I don't put too any stock into his dropped picks (which I do), he still was only able to put up 15 points. I don't really care that he had a higher passer rating than Mahomes. The offense was held in check for 3/4 of the game. Saying Trubisky played a great or good game is ignoring the first 3 quarters and the dropped interceptions. I had originally called it okay which I think is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I would take a half eaten sandwich before I would take Stafford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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