MrOaktown_56 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 This is kind of an obvious one, but what are the largest limitations of the 40 in your eyes in measuring "football speed". Is it : -not wearing pads when running -not running with a ball -something else entirely? I only ask because we've seen so many examples of players (i.e. antonio brown) who don't test well speed wise who are clearly playing faster than their 40 times. And unless they are injured, it's not like they don't train for the combine. Granted, quickness out of brakes/change of direction aren't the same as straight line speed. But how accurate of a measure is the 40 to you and how much do you weigh it in draft evaluations, if at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomont Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 As with everything else in the combine, not at all. IMO the entire thing is a total joke. I care what a player does on the field. Games aren't won or lost on a timed track or between orange cones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFLExpert49 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 There's no such thing as, "football speed." The fastest guys in pads are the fastest guys in street clothes when you line them up and race them. 1. A lot of people don't get the difference between "speed" and "quickness." Speed is how fast you cover ground in a straight line. 2. Different guys excel over different distances. Somebody will see somebody with a slower 40 time pull away from a guy with a faster 40 time and not understand that this is because the faster 40 time guy's advantage - and the reason he ran a faster 40 - was in the first 10 or 20 or so yards. The guy with the slower 40 time had a faster top gear and, since they were both already accelerated, OR because the faster 40 guy had his hips turned and started accelerating after the slower 40 guy, the slower 40 guy hit the gear where he was faster. That's why you should always look at the splits. You want a deep threat receiver? Look at the last 20 yards of the split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I can't think of a single player who became a deep threat in the NFL based on his 40 time alone. You have to see it on tape and if he's making those plays on a field, I'll trust that over a forty time all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyTiger Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Think a big limitation of the 40 time is players spend a lot of time training to run the 40 in just the perfect way to shave a little time off and when they play on the field they dont run in that perfect 40 time form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braylon Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, FuzzyTiger said: Think a big limitation of the 40 time is players spend a lot of time training to run the 40 in just the perfect way to shave a little time off and when they play on the field they dont run in that perfect 40 time form. Yep, this is a big thing. Pretty much everything people have posted in this thread have been good, valid points, but I think this is the most under appreciated aspect of it. You can gain and lose 1/10 of a second, or more, just in your ability to master the art of running the 40. We all know how big 1/10 of a second is in a 40.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 There is game speed versus practice/combine speed. IMO the big difference the is the afterburner called adrenaline. IIRC Jerry Rice ran a 4.55 in tryouts but didn't get caught from behind until he was 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM217 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said: There's no such thing as, "football speed." The fastest guys in pads are the fastest guys in street clothes when you line them up and race them. 1. A lot of people don't get the difference between "speed" and "quickness." Speed is how fast you cover ground in a straight line. 2. Different guys excel over different distances. Somebody will see somebody with a slower 40 time pull away from a guy with a faster 40 time and not understand that this is because the faster 40 time guy's advantage - and the reason he ran a faster 40 - was in the first 10 or 20 or so yards. The guy with the slower 40 time had a faster top gear and, since they were both already accelerated, OR because the faster 40 guy had his hips turned and started accelerating after the slower 40 guy, the slower 40 guy hit the gear where he was faster. That's why you should always look at the splits. You want a deep threat receiver? Look at the last 20 yards of the split. I agree with this answer here. I will add on the fact that there is the mental element as well. As a WR for example you have to think about your route, how to catch the ball, reading the defense, getting hit while some of the guys that "play fast" do so because they dont need to think about all that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeyejam Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Des King was deemed slow because of his 40 time. Usually not "slow" when you are an All Pro Return man. ( I know he had a bad game yesterday) Dissect the tape, pay more attention to the agility tests, trust the schools the player comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 To me the 40 time is good but shouldn't be used overly to determine a player's speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otg Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 They should play tag at the combine to demonstrate their speed and agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The 40 should be run with several players simultaneously. Ideally every player at the Combine would run simultaneously but there is not enough room inside the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 2:51 AM, goldfishwars said: I can't think of a single player who became a deep threat in the NFL based on his 40 time alone. You have to see it on tape and if he's making those plays on a field, I'll trust that over a forty time all day. you obviously haven't been paying attention to John Ross the last couple years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, fluhartz said: you obviously haven't been paying attention to John Ross the last couple years... He made loads of those plays in college! Just has no knees left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 The weirdest thing to me, has always been the way they run the 40 from that wonky sprinter start. Who in the NFL starts a play in that stance? Yet spending the time training for and mastering that start is often the difference between a "good" and "bad" 40 time for a lot of players. It's encouraging prospects to spend their time training for a football-irrelevant event, in order to look those fractions of a second better at the combine. It also kinda eliminates an opportunity to evaluate what might be some of the most important natural "football speed" burst, by potentially watching how they accelerate from a natural football stance appropriate to their position. Not even getting into the fact that there ain't a RB out there who is going to carry the ball while pumping both arms like they Usain Bolt. It's not even strictly about the "pads". Guys who can run football fast in shorts, will run football fast in pads. It's about the biomechanical kinesiology stuff, and how players move within the confines of the motions required of their respective position. Which is where the 40 is a useful measure of overall athletic aptitude, but a pretty poor measure of how a guy is actually going to "run" in a football context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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