40 yard dash vs "football speed"

[NFLExpert49]

On 1/18/2019 at 2:22 AM, Tugboat said:

The weirdest thing to me, has always been the way they run the 40 from that wonky sprinter start.  Who in the NFL starts a play in that stance?  Yet spending the time training for and mastering that start is often the difference between a "good" and "bad" 40 time for a lot of players.  It's encouraging prospects to spend their time training for a football-irrelevant event, in order to look those fractions of a second better at the combine.

It also kinda eliminates an opportunity to evaluate what might be some of the most important natural "football speed" burst, by potentially watching how they accelerate from a natural football stance appropriate to their position.

 

Not even getting into the fact that there ain't a RB out there who is going to carry the ball while pumping both arms like they Usain Bolt.

 

It's not even strictly about the "pads".  Guys who can run football fast in shorts, will run football fast in pads.  It's about the biomechanical kinesiology stuff, and how players move within the confines of the motions required of their respective position.  Which is where the 40 is a useful measure of overall athletic aptitude, but a pretty poor measure of how a guy is actually going to "run" in a football context.

That's a good point too. "Getting out of the blocks" in a sprint punishes taller players and rewards shorter ones, but that's not something they actually do on the field at most of the speed-oriented positions. Nearly every player who gets clocked at sub-4.3 is 6'0" flat or shorter. 

[MSURacerDT55]

Ahh, the ol' Jerry Rice vs Deion Sanders argument 

[sp6488]

On 1/14/2019 at 1:10 AM, bomont said:

As with everything else in the combine, not at all.  IMO the entire thing is a total joke.  I care what a player does on the field.  Games aren't won or lost on a timed track or between orange cones.

 

On 1/14/2019 at 2:51 AM, goldfishwars said:

I can't think of a single player who became a deep threat in the NFL based on his 40 time alone. You have to see it on tape and if he's making those plays on a field, I'll trust that over a forty time all day.

There’s a massive strawman here, suggesting that one has to only use the combine if they put any weight on it. You’re allowed to use both the combine and the game film. The value of the combine isn’t “this guy has a good 40 time, so he’s a good football player.” Rather, it’s an ability to measure physical/athletic traits in a controlled environment for the purpose of comparison between players. 

[goldfishwars]

2 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

 

There’s a massive strawman here, suggesting that one has to only use the combine if they put any weight on it. You’re allowed to use both the combine and the game film. The value of the combine isn’t “this guy has a good 40 time, so he’s a good football player.” Rather, it’s an ability to measure physical/athletic traits in a controlled environment for the purpose of comparison between players. 

It's not a massive strawman, we are making the same point - notice the word 'alone'. The combine 40 yard dash shouldn't be viewed as an indicator for deep speed if you don't see that on film. But it can trick teams to believe there's a system or coaching deficiency as a reason why it's not there. There's plenty of highly drafted receivers you can point at who fit that description.