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Into the Offseason - 2019

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Sounds like we've been doing a lot of homework and visits with safeties.  We had three guys at Delaware's pro-day for Adderley and I think one of our guys worked out Gardner-Jones and it was reported we spent some time with him.  Recently we had Thornhill in for a visit.  Looking back at our drafts with Telesco, the only time we didn't go skill position in the first was '13 (Fluker), in one of the worst drafts (as a whole, not just us) in recent memory.  Not to mention Telesco's whiffs on the offensive line - Fluker, Watt, Tuerk, and it looks like Feeney and the jury is out on Lamp.

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11 hours ago, BoltsFan937 said:

Sounds like we've been doing a lot of homework and visits with safeties.  We had three guys at Delaware's pro-day for Adderley and I think one of our guys worked out Gardner-Jones and it was reported we spent some time with him.  Recently we had Thornhill in for a visit.  Looking back at our drafts with Telesco, the only time we didn't go skill position in the first was '13 (Fluker), in one of the worst drafts (as a whole, not just us) in recent memory.  Not to mention Telesco's whiffs on the offensive line - Fluker, Watt, Tuerk, and it looks like Feeney and the jury is out on Lamp.

I mean yeah I guess that's been the history, but that's also pretty consistently been the biggest need as we've addressed the lines in FA historically. Now we need to spend some capitol drafting guys to succeed the older guys.  

But with the OL, it looks like we're going to finally have consistency in terms of coaching and that's incredibly important, as the first 4 years we had 3 different OL coaches....and Davidson was a nightmare of an OL coach.  Hopefully with a shift in focus and some good veterans leading the way the development will get better. Also I think people saw how Feeney got dominated by Defo, Suh, Brandon Williams (x2), and Chris Jones (x2), who dominated literally everyone they played against, and decided that he was bad. He really struggled vs length and strength guys, and played 3 of the best players in the league in that regard 4 times. Outside of those games and Pitt, where he played another elite length and strength combo in Tuitt/Heyward, he was solid. He needs to imrpove a lot in that regard, but he's working with Duke Manyweather over the offseason which is a good sign, so hopefully his anchor and hands can improve.  Outside of that he wasn't a problem.  Schofield was much worse towards the end of the year and the communication between him and Tevi was terrible. They couldn't handle stunts to save their lives.

I just really can't see them going S in the first round. Adderly is a nice ballhawking centerfield FS, so is Thompson, but they both are pretty limited otherwise.  I think we can get better value in Gardner Johnson, Thornhill, or Savage in the 2nd/3rd depending on where the chips fall.  I also think the coaching staff may see Jenkins as an option worth trying with some added competition. 

The more I think about it the more Tillery makes sense. They want an explosive, length and strength guy, and that's Tillery's wheelhouse, but the character concerns are slightly there, so who knows if they'll stay away from him. I can't see them taking anyone else at DL. I can't see them passing on Dillard, Ford or Taylor (who's getting overhyped now IMO).  Little is very good and underrated right now, but I'm not sure they'll take him. Little has a lot of Okung in his game, and I think he can develop into a very solid long term LT for us and is good enough to start at RT. I think Risner is an OG in this scheme and I'm not sure we're going to target IOL early like I mentioned earlier. 

So my guess is Tillery, Wilkins, OT (Dillard, Ford, Little, Taylor in no order), Risner, Lawrence, others

Edited by Duffman57

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Yeah I could see it being a scenario where safety isn't the first round option, but if they really like someone in the 2nd, Telesco may move up if the cost isn't too crazy.  I could see our front office really liking Adderley.  Team captain type guy, has the blood lines, the measurables and if you watch him play, there's no question he's passionate about the game.  Also, he returned punts which is an added bonus.  Me personally, I'd wait and see if the value is there on day two, and if not either address it internally or bring back a guy like Boston on a cheap one year deal.

Greg Little, to me, is one of the more frustrating guys I've watched.  There's so many instances where you see the talent, the feet and the movement but then there's times where he looks like a day three guy.  Inconsistent is probably the word I would use.  He's one of those guys that I want to give his talent and size to a guy like Richie Incognito and watch him dominate.  I really get the Jared Gaither feel from him, I don't feel like he's one of those hard working, eat/sleep/breathe football kinda guys. 

 

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I'll add to what Duffman said.  My gut tells me (and with regard to draft stuff like this, my gut has a really good track record) that actual staffs rate Bobby Evans a lot higher than draftniks and the online community does; I don't think there's a prayer he makes it out of Day 2 undrafted unless there's some medical issue that hasn't come to light.  Simple reasoning, you've got two prospects in Kyler Murray and Hollywood Brown that teams have been watching more and more tape on trying to nitpick them against the competition and it's kind of hard to watch that tape and not see Evans stand out.

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3 hours ago, The LBC said:

I'll add to what Duffman said.  My gut tells me (and with regard to draft stuff like this, my gut has a really good track record) that actual staffs rate Bobby Evans a lot higher than draftniks and the online community does; I don't think there's a prayer he makes it out of Day 2 undrafted unless there's some medical issue that hasn't come to light.  Simple reasoning, you've got two prospects in Kyler Murray and Hollywood Brown that teams have been watching more and more tape on trying to nitpick them against the competition and it's kind of hard to watch that tape and not see Evans stand out.

Totally agree on Evans, I went to watch Ford and ended up focusing on Evans after about five minutes.  Another similar guy that I feel is higher in the scouting community than draft world is Michael Jordan, Ohio State

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On 4/3/2019 at 12:26 PM, The LBC said:

I'll add to what Duffman said.  My gut tells me (and with regard to draft stuff like this, my gut has a really good track record) that actual staffs rate Bobby Evans a lot higher than draftniks and the online community does; I don't think there's a prayer he makes it out of Day 2 undrafted unless there's some medical issue that hasn't come to light.  Simple reasoning, you've got two prospects in Kyler Murray and Hollywood Brown that teams have been watching more and more tape on trying to nitpick them against the competition and it's kind of hard to watch that tape and not see Evans stand out.

I have never and don't think I will ever like Evans....I'm curious to know why you'd think that the team would value him a lot higher.  His feed are just bad, and the mixture of that and how high he plays is to the point where I don't even want to draft him. This new regime has been all about functional athleticism and blocking in space, and Evans is the epitome of not that.  It's why I think we'd seriously consider jumping ahead of the Texans to draft Dillard, because he's that perfect of a scheme fit. There's a few guys I think fit later but really not all that many.

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My guess is, I feel like the Clemson guys (Lawrence and Wilkins) will be long gone by our pick, but if one of those guys are there, they should get heavy consideration.  I'd say for me its, and its hard to rank these guys - Tillery, Ford, Lindstrom, Adderley.  I think all of those guys could make a lot of sense for us.  I'm also not at all opposed to a slight trade up for Dillard, Williams, Taylor if one of those tackles slides into the 20's.  Maybe swap 1sts this year, and a 3rd next year when we can possibly recoup our 3rd or a 4th comp on Tyrell Williams 

 

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On 4/4/2019 at 5:54 PM, Duffman57 said:

I have never and don't think I will ever like Evans....I'm curious to know why you'd think that the team would value him a lot higher.  His feed are just bad, and the mixture of that and how high he plays is to the point where I don't even want to draft him. This new regime has been all about functional athleticism and blocking in space, and Evans is the epitome of not that.  It's why I think we'd seriously consider jumping ahead of the Texans to draft Dillard, because he's that perfect of a scheme fit. There's a few guys I think fit later but really not all that many.

To be clear I said, A team not the team.

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8 hours ago, The LBC said:

To be clear I said, A team not the team.

That makes more sense.  I just feel like he falls into the same sort of mold of other guys who haven't been drafted highly.  Guys like Jamarco Jones and Crosby last year, and I think I would take both of those guys over him. Though I will say his 2017 stuff looked better than this year, but I still don't think he's going to get drafted very highly. 

 

18 hours ago, BoltsFan937 said:

My guess is, I feel like the Clemson guys (Lawrence and Wilkins) will be long gone by our pick, but if one of those guys are there, they should get heavy consideration.  I'd say for me its, and its hard to rank these guys - Tillery, Ford, Lindstrom, Adderley.  I think all of those guys could make a lot of sense for us.  I'm also not at all opposed to a slight trade up for Dillard, Williams, Taylor if one of those tackles slides into the 20's.  Maybe swap 1sts this year, and a 3rd next year when we can possibly recoup our 3rd or a 4th comp on Tyrell Williams.

This is going to be really interesting to me. I think without a doubt we're going to target a playmaking IDL. The more I think about it the more I think we shift away from OL with this pick. If we do go OL, it'll be because Dillard falls. Ford is better than the rest of those guys and it isn't close.  He'd be the pick for sure IMO.  I really just don't think that this is a scheme that really values the OT position highly enough and requires really good OG play.  Honestly We've spent a lot of time working with Kaleb McGary and I don't think it's for him to be a RT with us, but for him to be a G, as he fits a LOT of how Kyle Long played at Oregon with similar traits, who was drafted as an OG by Meyer.  If that happens, I think that we'll likely see them try to develop Feeney as a C of the future. The cool part is that with the versatility in our roster, I think that we're able to go with a 3T or a 1T to be that playmaker.  While Jones isn't anything spectacular, he reminds me a little bit of what Adhtya Rubin was for the Seahawks just after Gus left. Mebane played the penetrating 1T position, and Rubin was more of a run clogging 2T/3T.  When Mebane left for here, Rubin shifted over to play the NT spot and they drafted Allen at the 3T spot.  I think we have that same versatility in what we want to do, but we have to get someone who can penetrate and make plays in the backfield.  I think if we were to go Lawrence, or Wilkins, both would play the 3T with us, with Lawrence being the Haloti Ngata type "jumbo" 3T position. I would personally prefer Tillery to Lawrence, but Wilkins I think would make too much sense if he was there, thinking character, production (multiple years) and school wise given TT's propensity to do that.  I think it's becoming more and more obvious that DL is going to be the pick, whether it's at NT or 3T.

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Also I'm starting to think that FS and RT will be less of a priority for this team, and I could see us surprising with CB, WR and RB picks in this draft. 

I think we have a lot of guys at CB, and we can hope one develops, but we aren't super confident in them, but given our track record developing DB's I don't think we're super worried about it.  That said, I wouldn't be shocked if we saw a pick of a guy like Jojuan Williams if he fell a bit given how he's literally the prototype Bradley CB, and is so damn good in zone coverage (and has the agility numbers to back it up, which is insane for a 6'4" CB). 

At WR, I wouldn't be shocked to see them go for someone like Emanuel Hall or even Debo Samuel if he fell to the 2nd, as someone who can create big plays on offense, but especially Hall since we lack someone who can truly stretch the field deep. Again a position that we've had success filling holes with late, but I could see us throwing one as a "luxury pick" in the mid rounds.

And at RB, we were going to draft Royce Freeman in the 3rd as a replacement for Gordon next year if he falls, I wouldn't be shocked if we looked into someone in the mid rounds to do the same thing if there's a bit of a dropoff. While I love Gordon, I don't think he's production is something we can't reproduce.  Guys like Holyfield (I'm buying the hype on him, and not letting the 4.7 bug me), Miles Saunders, Montgomery or Henderson are all players I think can carry the load in the mid rounds potentially.

I've discussed RT a little, and think that this scheme just doesn't place a heavy emphasis on the position, and are looking for whole results over individual results. I think he still has some game to develop, and is already damn good at blocking on the 2nd level. I think he absolutely needs competition and a good backup plan, because he had games where he was really solid, but was very inconsistent, but showed flashes of being a solid RT and again, has only played OT for 4 years.  I think in an ideal world, we would've signed a vet to start for 1/2 years before trying him out again but we didn't really have that option. I think we'll look for value here, someone in the mid rounds like Pipkins, Howard, or Cajuste, but won't go after one high.

As for FS, I think there's a legit shot that Gus wants to give his guy Jenkins a shot at the FS job. He played well there to end the season and I don't think he's the worst option if we have to go that way.  Sure if we could get someone to drop to the 2nd or 3rd in the group of CGJ, Adderly, Thompson, Savage that would be awesome, but beyond that, I think we might just stand pat and let Watkins/Jenkins fight it out for that spot.

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Hoping that TT trades down or stays put this year as well. His best drafts have been when he is patient. I'm glad that he has learned his lesson the last 3 years.

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Someone did a positional breakdown in another forum that I frequent that I thought was interesting and wanted to share.

http://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/733268-draft-depth-by-position-chart-deep-at-dl-ol

But if you go solely by position, it would almost be better to get a safety in round 1 for example, and DT or OL in rounds 2 and 3. Granted, this is an inexact science and it's based solely off of the top 96 players according to CBS sports (which means nothing when compared to a individual team's board).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/

Pos Avail Need Surplus
OL 17 8 9
DL 15 11 4
WR 14 11 3
TE 5 4 1
S 9 9 0
CB 11 13 -2
EDGE 9 11 -2
RB 6 9 -3
QB 4 8 -4
LB 6 12 -6
Edited by Xenos

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Its really difficult to try and pinpoint us this year, you could make a strong case for OL, DL and S/CB in my opinion.  I would throw LB in there but I don't think the value is there this year at that spot.  You could probably even make a case for WR or TE if the value was right.  I think its gonna be a safety and specifically Adderley/CGJ in that order.  I just feel like with these 3 receiver sets, and nickel being the new base D, you need 5 DBs and possibly three safeties on the field.  Keep in mind we have Antonio Brown and Tyreek Hill in our division, we can't have too many cover guys.  I like those two guys specifically because I think they're versatile in that they can play the single high role, but also won't get embarrassed if they have to cover a guy one-on-one either.  I know CGJ has done it and I feel like Adderley is more than capable as well.  With where we're drafting, I don't think either guy makes it to our 2nd round pick so we'd have to pull the trigger in the 1st or (and this would be nice)  slide back into the 30's.  Lawrence/Tillery/Wilkins any of those guys for the DL, Ford or McGary for the OL (probably my least favorite option), or Adderley/CGJ for the secondary.  Any of those guys could help our team, and we're also in a good position to slide up or down if we choose. 

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On 4/2/2019 at 8:57 AM, Duffman57 said:

I mean yeah I guess that's been the history, but that's also pretty consistently been the biggest need as we've addressed the lines in FA historically. Now we need to spend some capitol drafting guys to succeed the older guys.  

But with the OL, it looks like we're going to finally have consistency in terms of coaching and that's incredibly important, as the first 4 years we had 3 different OL coaches....and Davidson was a nightmare of an OL coach.  Hopefully with a shift in focus and some good veterans leading the way the development will get better. Also I think people saw how Feeney got dominated by Defo, Suh, Brandon Williams (x2), and Chris Jones (x2), who dominated literally everyone they played against, and decided that he was bad. He really struggled vs length and strength guys, and played 3 of the best players in the league in that regard 4 times. Outside of those games and Pitt, where he played another elite length and strength combo in Tuitt/Heyward, he was solid. He needs to imrpove a lot in that regard, but he's working with Duke Manyweather over the offseason which is a good sign, so hopefully his anchor and hands can improve.  Outside of that he wasn't a problem.  Schofield was much worse towards the end of the year and the communication between him and Tevi was terrible. They couldn't handle stunts to save their lives.

I just really can't see them going S in the first round. Adderly is a nice ballhawking centerfield FS, so is Thompson, but they both are pretty limited otherwise.  I think we can get better value in Gardner Johnson, Thornhill, or Savage in the 2nd/3rd depending on where the chips fall.  I also think the coaching staff may see Jenkins as an option worth trying with some added competition. 

The more I think about it the more Tillery makes sense. They want an explosive, length and strength guy, and that's Tillery's wheelhouse, but the character concerns are slightly there, so who knows if they'll stay away from him. I can't see them taking anyone else at DL. I can't see them passing on Dillard, Ford or Taylor (who's getting overhyped now IMO).  Little is very good and underrated right now, but I'm not sure they'll take him. Little has a lot of Okung in his game, and I think he can develop into a very solid long term LT for us and is good enough to start at RT. I think Risner is an OG in this scheme and I'm not sure we're going to target IOL early like I mentioned earlier. 

So my guess is Tillery, Wilkins, OT (Dillard, Ford, Little, Taylor in no order), Risner, Lawrence, others

Brandon Williams does not make sense to me. Are you talking about the run blocking or pass protection? Because Brandon isn't much of a pass rusher.

Edited by Xenos

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