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Bears interested in Kareem Hunt?

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14 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

From a fit/ability/cost standpoint sure, but none of those matter without availability and that’s SUCH a question mark now. It would make sense to prioritize more of a sure thing. The Bears are trying to win the Super Bowl THIS year. Hunt will by all accounts be available at most only part of the season, and possibly not at all. I think we are overlooking that more than we should be.

If anything I think that NOT signing Hunt gives us more of a look into Pace’s offseason plans. Namely, I think it means he’s at least looking at acquiring our next top back in free agency. Think about it - if Hunt is already in the fold for late 2019 and beyond on a RFA tender we aren’t getting any RB of consequence in FA. Coleman, Bell, Ingram, etc. are all going to want to go be the guy. With Hunt in play they’re off the table even if Hunt doesn’t actually play at all. That’s bad business for Pace. Even if he doesn’t ultimately end up targeting those guys closing his options way off ahead of FA for such a question mark is not a prudent move.

I get what you're saying here in general. Yes, Pace would be putting himself against a wall by signing Hunt. However, the players you named (Coleman and Ingram) are not a deal breaker compared to Hunt. I left Bell out of the convo because that just isn't realistic. 

Also, the idea is to win a SB this year in 2019, or he 2020, and looking at anything beyond that serves no purpose right now because if Mitch doesn't turn out to be what Pace thought, then we're starting all over again anyhow so why look too far ahead?

Hunt would have provided us a cheap option in the 2 years we are making a legit run for a title (2019-2020).  

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7 hours ago, WindyCity said:

The reason I am a little upset about missing out on Hunt.

Because in an offseason where the Bears have limited cap space and draft picks, he was a clear upgrade they could afford.

The Bears are more than likely to downgrade at SS, possibly NB, potentially RG. Hunt was a clear upgrade that they could actually afford.

Affordable cap wise yes but what about the PR issue if the NFL investigation does place the blame on him in both instances and he's suspended for half a season.  He wouldn't do us much good if he couldn't play or practice 'til game nine.

Then we'd also have some media PR issues to deal with and I just don't think the Bears or GMcC want to go down that same road again.  I believe that's why they were holding off until after the NFL made it's determinations and it makes sense.

Cleveland may be far more accustomed to dealing with their problem children than we are and while I'd hoped we might get him I also believe there's another RB out there just as good, that we'll find him, and that he'll be available for 16 games.

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4 hours ago, soulman said:

Affordable cap wise yes but what about the PR issue if the NFL investigation does place the blame on him in both instances and he's suspended for half a season.  He wouldn't do us much good if he couldn't play or practice 'til game nine.

Then we'd also have some media PR issues to deal with and I just don't think the Bears or GMcC want to go down that same road again.  I believe that's why they were holding off until after the NFL made it's determinations and it makes sense.

Cleveland may be far more accustomed to dealing with their problem children than we are and while I'd hoped we might get him I also believe there's another RB out there just as good, that we'll find him, and that he'll be available for 16 games.

I think he would. While of course you want to field the best possible roster for all 16 games, we did ok with Howard and Cohen. I still feel the blocking was more of an issue than the players running the ball, though Howard absolutely showed he isn't comfortable in this scheme by missing a number of holes when they did actually open one. (Maybe he was surprised to see one? lol).

Two things though-

1) the OL and RBs should be a year more comfortable in the system so they should be better able to run it with a year of work under their belts.

2) even if Hunt only is available for weeks 9-17, that is still 7-8 games he gets to play and is entirely fresh for. That gives time to knock off the rust and gel, in a system he already is comfortable in. AFTER week 17 is where things really matter anyway, and he will be available at that time. That is where we want as much possible talent on the field at the same time.

 

Now if Pace and Virginia just didn't want the headache after dealing with McDonald and Ratliff's antics, plus Marshall and Bennett just being d-bags to the point they were tossed aside then I understand. I'm looking at this as a win-now move and don't have to deal with players who are d-bags day in and day out like Pace does.

 

 

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6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

1) Players on waivers don't get to choose where they go like they do in FA.

2) Chicago is not that far from his home. I'm from Toledo Ohio where he went to UT at and have traveled all over (including CHicago MANY of times) and I can tell you right now that played no factor into it. I don't even fly by plane and It's a easy trip to make. 

1) Wasn't Hunt a FA? I didn't think he was on waivers. Even if he was, wouldn't Cleveland have been before the Bears for the claim?

2) I, too, have been to Toledo a few times. Being 5 hours from home is a lot different than being 5 minutes from home, especially during the year when you get next to no time to travel. If he was in Chicago he would never get to travel to OH unless it was the bye week.

Edited by beardown3231

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8 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I won't ignore this as a possibility because you could very well be right.  However, If Pace doesn't have this much control over the team by now, then something is wrong here and we all need to start questioning who is really in charge and start questioning who we are &/or not praising whenever it seems fit to. (I.e Is he responsible for the draft and the FA?).

So is it McCaskey or Phillips who have been shackling Pace? This opens up a whole nother can of worms because I'm still not convinced that it was Pace who chose Nagy in the first place and I said that the day we signed him. But I digress on this part. 

Anyhow, yes, Nagy wanted him and that's where my problem lies. IF Ngay wanted him then why did Pace deny it? At this point, Pace has put it all on the line and has trusted his selected staff to make the right decisions to make the team better so why stop now? Why stop Nagy from getting a familiar face on board?

If we're just gonna look at it that way, then I would LIKE to think Pace has learned from his mistakes in the past when he put too much trust into Fox and we seen how that went. 

There's a flaw here either way you look at it.

The deal is likely, and probably same most everywhere, that Pace has personnel control, but media controversial signings (however they defined it) like Hunt have to be okayed by ownership.

 

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2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

1) Wasn't Hunt a FA? I didn't think he was on waivers. Even if he was, wouldn't Cleveland have been before the Bears for the claim?

2) I, too, have been to Toledo a few times. Being 5 hours from home is a lot different than being 5 minutes from home, especially during the year when you get next to no time to travel. If he was in Chicago he would never get to travel to OH unless it was the bye week.

Waivers go in reverse order of record.  Nobody claimed him so anybody could have.

 

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14 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Waivers go in reverse order of record.  Nobody claimed him so anybody could have.

 

That's my point- maybe Pace wanted Hunt but Hunt wanted Cleveland

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3 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

That's my point- maybe Pace wanted Hunt but Hunt wanted Cleveland

If Bears wanted him they could have claimed him.  Then it wouldn't be up to Hunt.

Even without claiming him I find it hard to nearly impossible to believe Hunt wouldn't have come to Chicago for a bit more $$$ than 1 million which is more than affordable as a free agent pick up at a positional need.  

Pace or someone above Pace just didn't want to make the move.  It makes more than perfect sense as a player so it had to be about the incident.  Pace will fall on sword if pressed and avoid question if not.  We will never know the truth.

We know their HC wanted him because he made that phone call to Hunt and brought it up to media unprompted.  

IMO and most others here Pace or someone simply made a bad call in not making the move.  

 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

That's my point- maybe Pace wanted Hunt but Hunt wanted Cleveland

I'm kinda favoring this thinking as well.

By Nagy reaching out to him Hunt had to know there was at least some interest on the Bears part but when the decision to "wait and see" what the results of his NFL investigation were and what kind of disciplinary action might be taken that still left Hunt in limbo for 2019.

Cleveland is near home and they offered to take him out of limbo now before the investigation was complete.  Money wasn't so much a factor as signing now and having a shot at playing again in 2019.  In either case he'd join two other productive RBs and have to win his spot.

Cleveland just made his decision for him is all.  We could have moved faster and possibly offered some incentives but neither Pace nor GMcC were ready to do that until the investigation was complete.  I think they made that clear from that start and planned to stick with it.

I'm OK with it.  There are other horses in the stable.

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5 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I think he would. While of course you want to field the best possible roster for all 16 games, we did ok with Howard and Cohen. I still feel the blocking was more of an issue than the players running the ball, though Howard absolutely showed he isn't comfortable in this scheme by missing a number of holes when they did actually open one. (Maybe he was surprised to see one? lol).

Two things though-

1) the OL and RBs should be a year more comfortable in the system so they should be better able to run it with a year of work under their belts.

2) even if Hunt only is available for weeks 9-17, that is still 7-8 games he gets to play and is entirely fresh for. That gives time to knock off the rust and gel, in a system he already is comfortable in. AFTER week 17 is where things really matter anyway, and he will be available at that time. That is where we want as much possible talent on the field at the same time.

 

Now if Pace and Virginia just didn't want the headache after dealing with McDonald and Ratliff's antics, plus Marshall and Bennett just being d-bags to the point they were tossed aside then I understand. I'm looking at this as a win-now move and don't have to deal with players who are d-bags day in and day out like Pace does.

 

 

Howard is strictly a zone blocking type back.  That limitation may be why he dropped into the 5th round when he obviously had the talent to go higher.

We ran a zone scheme so he was both a fit and a bargain in round five.  His 2019 productivity got back on track once we got back to running more zone blocking and if we want to max out his effectiveness we need to both stick with that and get him more carries.  But will we?  That's the $64k question.

Pace may decide to shop him around for a mid round pick or even a player at a spot where we need depth.  A trade to Atlanta for Vic Beasley has been mentioned by a few but it would require re-doing his deal beforehand because we're not gonna pay him $12 mil for 2019.

Denver, who has long run zone schemes, might be a possibility.  They have a high 3rd round pick and even after trading their #11 4th round pick to Balt. for Flacco they still have a #23 4th round pick acquired from the Texans for Demaryius Thomas.  So there's that.

If we can't get at least a 4th round pick for Howard I'd just keep him and draft a back Nagy feels may be a better fit knowing that at least for 2019 he can use Howard more effectively if he sticks with a zone scheme.  Kyle Long's return will probably help with that.

I don't think Pace and GMcC were unwilling to deal with signing Hunt I just think it wasn't ever gonna happen 'til after the NFL has completed it's investigation and any suspension was determined.  Until then they weren't gonna gamble and I think they made that clear.

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5 hours ago, soulman said:

Howard is strictly a zone blocking type back.  That limitation may be why he dropped into the 5th round when he obviously had the talent to go higher.

We ran a zone scheme so he was both a fit and a bargain in round five.  His 2019 productivity got back on track once we got back to running more zone blocking and if we want to max out his effectiveness we need to both stick with that and get him more carries.  But will we?  That's the $64k question.

Pace may decide to shop him around for a mid round pick or even a player at a spot where we need depth.  A trade to Atlanta for Vic Beasley has been mentioned by a few but it would require re-doing his deal beforehand because we're not gonna pay him $12 mil for 2019.

Denver, who has long run zone schemes, might be a possibility.  They have a high 3rd round pick and even after trading their #11 4th round pick to Balt. for Flacco they still have a #23 4th round pick acquired from the Texans for Demaryius Thomas.  So there's that.

If we can't get at least a 4th round pick for Howard I'd just keep him and draft a back Nagy feels may be a better fit knowing that at least for 2019 he can use Howard more effectively if he sticks with a zone scheme.  Kyle Long's return will probably help with that.

I don't think Pace and GMcC were unwilling to deal with signing Hunt I just think it wasn't ever gonna happen 'til after the NFL has completed it's investigation and any suspension was determined.  Until then they weren't gonna gamble and I think they made that clear.

There were several reasons for his drop,  on top of the zone -only  scheme. Durability was a concern, and he was a limited athlete in the pass game, he caught more passes his rookie year than he did his entire college career combined. As far as going to the 5th, IDK why he dropped so low, but those pushed him out of the top 2 rounds, along with less-than-amazing athletic ability.  I still dislike the power scheme with our lineman, it is a poor fit for them and only only Long and Whitehair seem to be good fits in the scheme. James has flashes but he has seemed to still be growing stronger and may develop into a hell of a power blocker, but right now he is more of a great athlete/technician with room to grow. Leno and Massie are not strong enough to bully anyone consistently. IDK, I prefer to adapt the scheme to the talents rather than trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Our running sucked overall this season, so I hope Nagy and HH adjust accordingly.

 

I've thought some about Beasley. The only way I could see us getting Beasley would be to trade Floyd for him. As far as pure passrushing role I would do it actually, but if Pagano is going to drop the OLB opposite Floyd in coverage then Floyd is a FAR better player for the role from what I have seen. I think the trade for Howard is a ceiling at the 4th round, he had the most value this last offseason IMO, but with only one year left it is a concern that he is nothing but a rental. My best guess is that the value isn't there and we retain Howard, hopefully they try to add more talent to the backfield but Nagy using Mizzell over Cohen and Howard was simply stupid. So IDK how they value Howard overall. Maybe Nagy really wants little shifty guys, I seriously don't understand his infatuation with Mizzell though.

 

I bet missing out on Hunt bites us at some point, but they had to have their reasons. If nothing else, Pace has seemed to have a pretty cerebral mind. He isn't making any major decision lightly.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

My best guess is that the value isn't there and we retain Howard, hopefully they try to add more talent to the backfield but Nagy using Mizzell over Cohen and Howard was simply stupid.

Unless we get real value for Howard (a 5 or better) we’d be crazy to trade him even if his 2019 role is limited to goal line back and experienced depth. 

Looking at the FA list there are several guys with the Howard skill set who can all be had by other teams for very reasonable contracts without giving up a pick. Powell. Murray. Martin. Gore. Ajayi. And good RB depth in the draft. What’s the incentive to another team to trade for him? I just don’t see it. 

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12 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Unless we get real value for Howard (a 5 or better) we’d be crazy to trade him even if his 2019 role is limited to goal line back and experienced depth. 

Looking at the FA list there are several guys with the Howard skill set who can all be had by other teams for very reasonable contracts without giving up a pick. Powell. Murray. Martin. Gore. Ajayi. And good RB depth in the draft. What’s the incentive to another team to trade for him? I just don’t see it. 

Agreed. Plus we have seen Howard be really productive with crap a OC and QBs, Nagy has no reason not to be able to succeed with him, Tru, and a much improved WR corp if Frodo can do it with less.

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3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

There were several reasons for his drop,  on top of the zone -only  scheme. Durability was a concern, and he was a limited athlete in the pass game, he caught more passes his rookie year than he did his entire college career combined. As far as going to the 5th, IDK why he dropped so low, but those pushed him out of the top 2 rounds, along with less-than-amazing athletic ability.  I still dislike the power scheme with our lineman, it is a poor fit for them and only only Long and Whitehair seem to be good fits in the scheme. James has flashes but he has seemed to still be growing stronger and may develop into a hell of a power blocker, but right now he is more of a great athlete/technician with room to grow. Leno and Massie are not strong enough to bully anyone consistently. IDK, I prefer to adapt the scheme to the talents rather than trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Our running sucked overall this season, so I hope Nagy and HH adjust accordingly.

 

I've thought some about Beasley. The only way I could see us getting Beasley would be to trade Floyd for him. As far as pure passrushing role I would do it actually, but if Pagano is going to drop the OLB opposite Floyd in coverage then Floyd is a FAR better player for the role from what I have seen. I think the trade for Howard is a ceiling at the 4th round, he had the most value this last offseason IMO, but with only one year left it is a concern that he is nothing but a rental. My best guess is that the value isn't there and we retain Howard, hopefully they try to add more talent to the backfield but Nagy using Mizzell over Cohen and Howard was simply stupid. So IDK how they value Howard overall. Maybe Nagy really wants little shifty guys, I seriously don't understand his infatuation with Mizzell though.

 

I bet missing out on Hunt bites us at some point, but they had to have their reasons. If nothing else, Pace has seemed to have a pretty cerebral mind. He isn't making any major decision lightly.

 

 

Yeah, no one will ever rate Howard as an athletic marvel but few power backs are.  He's got great vision, good feet, a great short area burst, and power but long speed is not his strength.  It was never Walter Payton's long suit either but then Payton was still a better athlete.  If Howard proves to have less value in trade than he is to us by keeping him fine.  Then we'd be drafting a complimentary back to replace Mizzell and Cunnigham and on we go.  We could do a whole lot worse than Howard and a rookie with Cohen as our Swiss Army Knife guy.

I would never do a Floyd for Beasley swap.  Beasley has become a rotation guy whose production has slipped greatly since 2016.  In fact I question why Atlanta even exercised his 5th year option at all unless it was to renegotiate his deal and lower his cap cost or lacking that trade him.  $12.8 mil is a whole lot of money for a rotational edge rusher whose only getting you 5 sacks and a half dozen hits per year.  His trade value isn't much different than Howard's.  I mean we're talkin' Aaron Lynch kinda numbers and a guy about to make nearly $13 mil.

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