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even munchak is tired of this

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7 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

 

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/mike-munchak-insists-move-to-denver-all-about-family-praises-steelers-organization/

https://triblive.com/sports/columnists/timbenz/breakfastwithbenz/14509758-74/first-call-antonio-brown-teases-another-interview-mike-tomlin-tweets-about-mike

 

I get both sides of the argument.  I too am very disappointed in this team.  They have wasted golden opportunities  and have under-achieved with the talent this team has.  I love coach T, but I am very disappointed in some things from an execution/performance and perception standpoint.  Our Killer B's have been more team and morale killers' than executioners of our opponents. While Coach T is still #2 in terms of SB appearances, wins and some other stats, The #1 guy Coach Billichick  is appearing in his eighth consecutive Conference Championship and a chance to bring home Lombardi Trophy #6.  Most fans are pissed off and rightfully so.

Our once proud and respected franchise has become a reality show of the Real Housewives of the Steelers (starring the players).  To the point that those who bash Coach T complain, this all happened on his watch. Although I am a fan and supporter of Coach T, I have to agree. He is partly to blame for the circus and drama. Winning covers a lot of problems, but losing brings them to light and scrutiny. The Steelers under-achieved and now the media, fans and other organizations are coming after them.  Like it or not that is the reality and those who are not fans are even more critical.

Coach Munchak is a highly respected figure in the league and is a huge loss for this organization.  I have been a huge AB fan and I am extremely disappointed in his behavior and antics as well.  It is wrong and outright disrespectful to Coach T and Mr. Rooney.  I may not agree with why AB is upset, but the disappointment comes in the way he is expressing it. Ditto for Debo who is taking every opportunity to trash the Steelers and Coach T as well.  It has been no secret that Troy Polomalu has not been happy with how the organization treated him at the end of his career, but he did not come out of the shadows to bash Coach T, Mr. Rooney or do anything to give the Steelers another black eye. I learned in business years ago that you praise in public and criticize in private. The locker room is a teams sanctuary.  That sanctuary is being violated on so many levels and by so many individuals. Change is inevitable and a necessity. 

Coach T is an intelligent man, he has pride for this organization, his family name and a passion and fire to succeed, so I do not expect him to fall down crying and feeling sorry for himself.The situation in Pittsburgh is embarrassing right now. The more AB talks, coaches depart, and the media hypes all of this, it is going to be a hard pill to swallow for the organization and the pain of losing will linger until kick-off in September 2019.

There are fans of 30 other teams that wish they had as much success as BB and the Patriots.  Relative to them...everyone underachieves.  I'm not necessarily making excuses for our shortcomings, but it's not fair to compare any team to the Pats.   Despite our underachieving, we are arguably the 2nd most successful franchise during the Brady/Belichick era.

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On 2019-01-15 at 9:31 PM, Magnus-Viktor said:

I'm sorry but I'm absolutely disgusted with the Steelers the last few years.  The ONLY thing they did right in recent memory was drafting TJ Watt.  I'm not joking or exaggerating either.  That is absolutely DISGUSTING!

they have drafted some other good players, but not enough and the wasted RD1 picks is what bothers me the most.  Too many wasted RD1 picks in the last 10 years is catching up to this team and will continue toms time moves on. It's the reality for the next few years,  get used to it I guess;)

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12 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

There are fans of 30 other teams that wish they had as much success as BB and the Patriots.  Relative to them...everyone underachieves.  I'm not necessarily making excuses for our shortcomings, but it's not fair to compare any team to the Pats.   Despite our underachieving, we are arguably the 2nd most successful franchise during the Brady/Belichick era.

I get what you are saying fourthreemafia, but the Patriots were at one time chasing us. BB was not the model or standard in coaching nor were they they model franchise, the Steelers were. We have lost some of that.  The Steelers organization followed in the steps of the Packers of the 60's and became the model of the 70's, the 49'ers were the model of the 80's, Dem Boys in the 90's and the Patriots have been it since the 2000's.  I would rather be #2 than #32, butno one wears their losing SB Rings. It says that I am the #1 loser. The Steelers have a higher standard. They don't display the Lamaar Hunt Trophy or AFC North Division Titles with the same pride as those six Lombardi's. With the talent that has been assembled with this team, BB, AB, Bell, etc,., etc., etc. there is no seventh Lombardi.  That is not simply because we are spoiled pampered fans, but the expectations with the talent of this team and staff has not reached its apex. Now things are bottoming out a bit. This happened during Coach T's watch.  That is all and as a fan of Coach T, I am pretty sure he is not happy with this nor are we as fans and supporters.

My point is that the Pats are a rival just as the Raiders were with us in the 70's.  BB has done it with less talent at times.  He has won with James White and Chris Hogan and we have loss with AB and Bell during that same span.  This is not a harsh criticism, but a statement of facts.  Our organization weighs success based on winning Lombardi's.  There are some positives and negatives that come along the way, but not making the play-offs with this talented group is a severe letdown and EVERYONE should be pissed off. When you win 13 games, some things can be hidden, but when you have the talent of the Steelers and lose to a team that only won two games and tied a team that was win-less the previous year, YOU  HAVE SOME ISSUES.

Last year BB caught some heat for sitting Malcolm Butler during the SB.  We don't know if they would have won if he played, but he made a decision based on Butler's behavior.  Right or wrong, good decision or bad, he stuck with it and took the heat.  I think Coach T is doing the same thing with where the team is and all of the AB drama. He is learning from it and I actually see that he has been drafting a different caliber person/football player. They are going for more team-oriented and high character guys: T. Edmonds wasn't a first round talent on most draft boads, but he was a first round character guy as are James Connor, Ju Ju Smith Schuster, TJ Watt, Sean Davis and others.  He isn't seeing all of the results today as they guys are developing, but next year and beyond, I do believe that he will.  Coaching is like parenting. You can't parent every kid the same way. Some need a kick in the butt at times and others need an encouraging word and hug. You apply the wrong type of love and parenting at times just as a coach will at times misjudge players.  we have seen this with BB and Tom Coughlin, Greg Schiano and others.  You make mistakes with coaching as a coach.  You will certainly make mistakes with spoiled, rich, entitled, privileged superstar grown azz men. Some are mature enough to handle the bright lights and spot lights and others begin to believe their own hype.

What I fell in love about AB is still there: his work ethic and desire to be the best.  However, since getting his money, he does not respond the same way that he did when he wanted to be a starter. It went from team to me. Tomlin let him get away with some things and it didn't matter when we were winning, but AB has abused his "privileges." Coach T has to change that culture in the organization and locker room. PERIOD!

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14 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

There are fans of 30 other teams that wish they had as much success as BB and the Patriots.  Relative to them...everyone underachieves.  I'm not necessarily making excuses for our shortcomings, but it's not fair to compare any team to the Pats.   Despite our underachieving, we are arguably the 2nd most successful franchise during the Brady/Belichick era.

not in the playoffs, if you care about that

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7 minutes ago, muncher said:

not in the playoffs, if you care about that

And that is part of my point. I am not suggesting that Coach Tomlin should go as some others are and have been saying, but he hasn't performed to expectations with the talent given and ole BB has done it and won with lesser talent at the same positions. The locker room culture is bad and that must change immediately.

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15 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

There are fans of 30 other teams that wish they had as much success as BB and the Patriots.  Relative to them...everyone underachieves.  I'm not necessarily making excuses for our shortcomings, but it's not fair to compare any team to the Pats.   Despite our underachieving, we are arguably the 2nd most successful franchise during the Brady/Belichick era.

Yep. 2 SB appearances and 1 win under Tomlin. It seems like critics are contradicting each other. Tomlin can't win with all the talent he's had but Colbert is terrible at drafting. Which is it?  FWIW: I too think they've underachieved and I too think there have been some terrible draft picks. But I don't think it's been drastically worse then every other team not named the Pats.  No team and no coach is in the same ballpark.  

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4 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

Tomlin can't win with all the talent he's had but Colbert is terrible at drafting. Which is it?  FWIW: I too think they've underachieved and I too think there have been some terrible draft picks.

My personal answer?

We're a top heavy talent team that points to draft issues, with a group (not a single) of coaches that are unable to get elevated play from backup players.

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1 minute ago, warfelg said:

My personal answer?

We're a top heavy talent team that points to draft issues, with a group (not a single) of coaches that are unable to get elevated play from backup players.

Ok, are there 30 other teams that are significantly and consistently better?

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Just now, Chieferific said:

Ok, are there 30 other teams that are significantly and consistently better?

At what? And why 30?  And what's wrong with what I've said?

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Just now, warfelg said:

At what? And why 30?  And what's wrong with what I've said?

I agree with what you said. My prior post was pointing out that no other team is in the Pats league. I should have said have any of the other 30 (not Pats) been consistently better at coaching and drafting then the Steelers?

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12 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

I agree with what you said. My prior post was pointing out that no other team is in the Pats league. I should have said have any of the other 30 (not Pats) been consistently better at coaching and drafting then the Steelers?

Oh....well the data (based on the 2 threads on drafting) points to the fact that we've turned out 'average' to 'slightly below average' drafts.  That's not in relation to the league, that's in relation to what's expected.  In relation to the league it puts us about 12-14 range (slightly above average).

 

The coaching thing is harder to answer.  Long term, I would say Sean Peyton and Andy Reid have been even to slightly better coaches.  McVay looks like he has the potential to be better than Tomlin, but only two years in it's hard to say.  

 

EDIT: To add on the other two guys I included, along with McVay, are guys that are the HC and OC, and basically stay out of the way of the defense.  I really feel as though play calling coaches (BB not withstanding) tend to have a better pulse on the game

Edited by warfelg

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1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Oh....well the data (based on the 2 threads on drafting) points to the fact that we've turned out 'average' to 'slightly below average' drafts.  That's not in relation to the league, that's in relation to what's expected.  In relation to the league it puts us about 12-14 range (slightly above average).

 

The coaching thing is harder to answer.  Long term, I would say Sean Peyton and Andy Reid have been even to slightly better coaches.  McVay looks like he has the potential to be better than Tomlin, but only two years in it's hard to say.  

 

EDIT: To add on the other two guys I included, along with McVay, are guys that are the HC and OC, and basically stay out of the way of the defense.  I really feel as though play calling coaches (BB not withstanding) tend to have a better pulse on the game

Interesting. Who were the top 5 drafting teams?

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32 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

Interesting. Who were the top 5 drafting teams?

IIRC over the last 5 years it was the Eagles, Rams, Titans, Falcons, Ravens.

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44 minutes ago, warfelg said:

IIRC over the last 5 years it was the Eagles, Rams, Titans, Falcons, Ravens.

According to the NY Post https://nypost.com/2018/04/21/giants-jets-cant-crack-top-10-most-successful-teams-at-draft/

Quote

The rankings are based on: how many games the draft pick has played, Pro Bowl appearances, first-team All-Pro selections and awards like MVP and Rookie of the Year. We also factored in how much the team has won during the five years, because players on losing teams tend to have an easier path to playing time.

1) Cowboys

2) Chiefs

3) Vikings

4) Rams

5) Raiders

 

Steelers are 9th

9. Steelers (11)

Pro Bowlers: 2
Best Pick: Le’Veon Bell (2013, second)
Worst Pick: Jarvis Jones (2013, first)

Getting Bell in the second round in 2013 was an absolute steal. Pittsburgh looks like it had a good class in 2017 with the early returns on T.J. Watt and JuJu Smith-Schuster.

 

An older article (2017) puts the Steelers at 11

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/nfl-draft-performance-grades-best-drafting-teams-picks-classes-2012-2016

 

We can always find this article From the Washington Post

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Bolt/Washington-Post-Steelers-are-NFLs-best-drafting-team-since-96-44958779/

 

Edited by jebrick

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When has being #2 ever been acceptable in Pittsburgh?  It has not been by the fans when we lost SB's to Dallas & GB. No one was out there screaming, "We're #2!!!!"  There were no second place parades or SB particpation celebrations. Losing sucks. It happens to us all and the lesson learned is to get better so that you don't have to experience the agony of defeat.

It was not a great year in 2018 by"Steelers standards!"  It was not good enough when many of us fans said that Bill Cowher couldn't win the big one! Coach Cowher went to eight AFC Championship Games, during his HC career, but lost six of them and then went 1 - 1 in Super Bowls. To steal a quote from Gerard Butler in the movie 300, "This is Pittsburgh!"  We don't accept coming in second in Pittsburgh. The organization comes before the players and coaches. It has always been that way and I hope that doesn't change.  

New England and BB didn't say that those are the Steelers and they are in another class when they were chasing us.  They didn't say that no one else is where they are or can catch them. They didn't say that Chuck Noll is a legend and we are happy being in the top five or whatever and losing SB's.  No, Mr. Kraft and Coach Bellichik are coming after our winning championship legacy and trying to put their names and organization ABOVE IT.  I hate the Patriots as a competitive rival, but I do respect and admire their success, drive, consistency and moxy to be the best! Bill Walsh and the 49'ers did it in the 80's and every other championship franchise is trying to do it as well.  As I said earlier, we went after the Packers SB pedigree and legacy in the 70's. People didn't say the Packers, they said the Steelers.  That didn't sit well in Title Town!

I am thankful for the growth in this team and despite this set-backs in 2018, I expect more fire, passion, and commitment to win to emerge from this team. Call me a spoiled and pampered "Homer!"  Number two is not how I ever want to view the Steelers nor is any competitor happy with that. The perception is that all 53 players did not go down swinging. Some teammates, coaches, whomever in the organization tapped out! That is not the Steelers way.

 

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